Conservatives open playbook to defeat nondiscrimination bill

Sunday, January 23, 2011 at 10:05pm
Howe.jpg
Lisa Howe (Jude Ferrara/SouthComm)

On a crisp, snowy Wednesday morning earlier this month, cars began arriving at the iced-over parking lot outside the downtown LifeWay building around 6:45 a.m. One by one, passengers hopped out of their vehicles, walked down a salted entrance, and picked up personalized nametags at the building’s front desk.

“Who are all these people?” a befuddled female employee of the Southern Baptist-affiliate company asked.  

“There’s a special meeting today,” a man, apparently more connected to the higher-ups, responded. 

It wasn’t just any gathering. Inside were notable business leaders, Christian-right organizers and Republican lawmakers preparing talking points and plotting their strategy to defeat a proposed Metro ordinance that would require companies contracting with the city to adopt nondiscrimination employment policies that include protections based on sexual orientation and gender identity. 

Among those who turned out for the occasion — hosted by David Fowler, a former Republican state senator who heads the Family Action Council of Tennessee — were businessmen such as Lee Beaman of Beaman Automotive Group and Stan Hardaway, president of Hardaway Construction; Bill Phillips, former deputy mayor of Bill Purcell’s administration who now works as a lobbyist; and a pair of Republicans: state Rep. Glen Casada of Williamson County and Jim Gotto, currently serving a dual role as state representative and Metro councilman. 

The focus of the event was a pending bill — inspired by the controversial December departure of Belmont women’s soccer coach Lisa Howe, after she revealed to her team that she and her female partner are expecting a child — that would extend the nondiscrimination policy adopted in 2009 for Metro workers to companies that do business with city government. All Davidson County businesses are already forbidden to discriminate on the basis of race, gender, national origin and disability. The proposal, only pertaining to Metro contactors, would essentially add four words to a company’s employment policy: sexual orientation, gender identity. 

“I think it’s a natural extension of the nondiscrimination policy that they put into place in 2009,” Howe told The City Paper last week. Howe, who is still searching for a new job, said she supports the ordinance and hopes to become an advocate for its approval in the weeks ahead. 

“Three council members individually on their own accord went to our legal adviser and asked, ‘What legislation could have prevented this in the first place?’ ” bill co-sponsor Councilman Mike Jameson said, referring to Howe’s departure and the fact that Belmont has a contract with Metro. “This is the legislation that resulted.” 

But opposition is fierce and organized. The email invitation to the LifeWay meeting came from William Morgan, president of John Bouchard & Sons Co. In it, he described the proposal as part of the “homosexual agenda,” and the first step in one day requiring all companies in Davidson County to adhere to an updated nondiscrimination law. “The meeting will lay out the wide-reaching impact of this ordinance, what can be done to defeat it,” the email read. 

With Nashville’s fairgrounds debate now on hold for a while, the nondiscrimination ordinance is poised to become the council’s next hot-button issue. But there are several questions: Will Howe’s departure from Belmont spur new public policy? Is Nashville’s identity one of progressivism or conservatism? And will Mayor Karl Dean, sometimes reluctant to weigh in on controversial issues, take a stand one way or the other? 

Two-pronged strategy

Exiting the 90-minute meeting at the LifeWay building, business leaders declined to talk to a City Paper reporter who wasn’t granted admission and waited in the lobby. Gotto and Casada, however, didn’t shy away. Heading to his car, Gotto said the bill could have a “chilling effect” on businesses in Nashville. 

Conservatives, led by the two Republican officials, left with a two-pronged strategy to defeat the bill. The first tactic — pulling the bill separately on a rare first-reading vote — failed last week, as the council voted 22-13 to move it to committee. The council is now scheduled to consider the proposal on a crucial second of three votes in February, though bill sponsors have indicated they plan to defer the legislation for at least one meeting. 

The second scheme, working now in the background, is Casada’s plan to file a state bill that he said would prevent local municipalities in Tennessee from imposing nondiscrimination policies that protect gay, lesbian and transgender employees. The Republican legislator said he plans to sit down with attorneys and businessmen on Tuesday to draft the bill. 

“I am going to do this,” Casada affirmed last week. “It’s more than Nashville. My concern is every city in this state having a hodgepodge of laws related in business, in this case, to transgender — that kind of thing. I don’t want every little local community putting these regulations in place on our small businesses and even medium-sized companies.” 

Though it’s impossible to know exactly what the discourse was like inside the closed-door conservative strategy session, a few themes leaked out. According to one source, an organizer said conservatives are doing an effective job of confronting these issues on the statewide and federal levels, but often neglect local governments. They characterized the Metro Council as an increasingly liberal body. Also of note, the source relayed how organizers discussed the advantage of framing the debate as a business issue rather than a moral, Christian one. 

Still, a resistance to extending rights for the LGBT community seems to be fueling much of the opposition. Manning the door at the gathering was David Shelley, a pastor at Nashville’s Smith Springs Baptist Church, who serves as Truth Project trainer for the Family Action Council of Tennessee. 

“I believe homosexual behavior is not only morally wrong, it’s abhorrent, it’s unnatural,” Shelley said. “It prevents the species from reproducing and continuing, and it’s certainly not something that should be given special protection by law.” 

Predictably, the nondiscrimination bill has already met with criticism from the council’s right-wing members, who voted against Metro’s nondiscrimination policy two years ago and against the new bill on first reading last week. 

“I’m not going to say that doesn’t play a part of it,” Councilman Robert Duvall said when asked if part of the concern is based on the explicit protection for gay citizens. “But I don’t think that has to be the primary focus.

“I don’t want us imposing any additional restrictions on any business or vendor that wants to do business with the government,” Duvall said. “If we do that, there’s going to be people that walk away that could have done a better quality job, had a better preparation of the scope of work and possibly had a better price. We’ll alienate those people.” 

Councilman Jamie Hollin, another co-sponsor of the bill, believes the government-interference rationale is a front. “The argument that it’s an intrusion upon private business, I believe, is a mirage to cover the prejudice against homosexuality,” he said. 

“If adding this language to our procurement code is an intrusion into private business, then we’re already intruding into private business by making Metro contractors not discriminate on the basis of age, race, gender and handicap,” he said. “Any private business that’s out there, they can hate and discriminate with abandon on the basis of gender identity or sexual orientation. When this passes, they could continue to do so; however, if they’re elected to receive a Metro contract, they would be prohibited from doing so.” 

Big players still mum

In the weeks ahead, bill sponsors will be watching two key stakeholders that still haven’t weighed in on the ordinance: the Nashville Area Chamber of Commerce and the mayor’s office. (See related story here.)

Last week, chamber spokeswoman Stephanie Coleman told The City Paper the chamber still doesn’t have an official position but is getting feedback from members. 

Dean, who supported the 2009 ordinance pertaining to Metro workers, hasn’t revealed his position on the legislation either. But in a December interview, the mayor was hesitant to support such a bill that, in his words, could lead to the more regulation of business. 

“I’m not saying I wouldn’t consider something,” Dean said in December. “You have to look at everything. But my natural sense is that we should not be over-regulating the private sector.”  

33 Comments on this post:

By: Loner on 1/24/11 at 6:29

Good morning, Nashville!

It appears that the so-called "Christians" just don't seem to get it. Bigotry is no longer cool, in any of its various manifestations. These hate-based followers of Jesus of Nazareth are convinced that that their man-God idol hated homosexuals and condemned them to eternal suffering in Hell for their sins.

Since Jesus hated homosexuals, according to this belief sustem, the pro-discrimination crowd feels obligated to do the same. How convenient.....this produces guilt-free hatred for our fellow men....apparently, the Baptists-sponsored hate-fest attendees agreed to spread this heretical view of Christ.....Jesus the fag-basher is egging them on from on high.

Isn't that special?

By: serr8d on 1/24/11 at 6:35

More left-wing legislation we don't need.

And David Shelley's right, this sort of morally repugnant behavior shouldn't be encouraged. If people want to believe they are animals, and act like animals, then they can do so on their own dime; preferably in secret. Lisa Howe would've been just fine and still employed if she hadn't trumpeted her shameful actions for all to see.

Out and Proud, Out of Work. Deal.

By: serr8d on 1/24/11 at 6:43

It's not 'hate', Loner (why do you hate Jews?); it's like-thinking, moral opposition to special interests that are again seeking unnecessary government intervention. You complain to high-Heaven that America is giving money and aid to Israel, but here you want to give special consideration and aid to special interests; interests that are (and should be) considered shameful and deviant by morally-adjusted people. Why, again, should we force businesses to hire people who behave counter to their core morality?

By: Booman on 1/24/11 at 8:07

The gay and lesbian communities continually try to force their beliefs to be accepted so they can feel better about what they do and who they are. the adjustments that need to be made, however, lie within the homosexuals and their inability to understand that they are different, much more emotional, and more easily upset over rejection than others are. This all began over a firing of someone that just happened to be an out of the closet lesbian. The real truth is why she was terminated anyway. If she, as staff of a prestigious university, chose to relate to her team of her expectancy, why did she do that? what motivated her to let her female students know that she was a lesbian to begin with? How many of them did that offend? Why would anyone want to discuss their "preferences", "orientation", or choices with other people other than to try to justify it in their own minds?

If a business chooses to uphold moral standards than so-be-it, and the government should stay out of it. If the Government passes legislation that prohibits a business from upholding their moral standards, then it is the government that should be terminated.

By: Antisocialite on 1/24/11 at 8:30

serr8d, you are nothing but a closed-minded fool. How dare you presume to speak from the moral high ground when the content of your posts reveals the most uncaring, un-'Christian' belief system imaginable. You openly compare homosexuals to animals, which while technically correct from a biological view, is certainly meant to be an insult coming from a troglodyte such as yourself.

Oh and please don't compare this situation to Israel, first of all, it is an obvious attempt to drag the discussion off topic, but more importantly it doesn't even make sense. You are comparing 'money and aid' given to a foreign government to 'money and aid' given to US cirizens... There is literally no comparison.

I must also touch on your last paragraph, which has a very obviously bigoted remark at the end in, "Why, again, should we force businesses to hire people who behave counter to their core morality?" It should be obvious to anyone who has bothered to read our Constitution that the country is based, in theory, on equality. If we are to accept serr8d's view, and allow for the discrimination of workers on city projects, simply because some believe that their 'morals' are inferior, then I hope for serr8d's sake he/she isn't in the construction industry, because I'd rather take advice on morality from the crazy guy under the bridge.

By: zmania on 1/24/11 at 9:05

This is sickening. Isn't Nashville the buckle of the Bible belt? Why are these people and politicians showing hatred towards others who live a different lifestyl? And they call themselves Christians? I've read the Bible back and forth and can't recall Jesus hating anyone. Besides, we don't have the right to judge.
Lifeway and these conservative politicians are sick in the head. Homosexuals aren't forcing their lifestyles on anyone. They just want to be accepted, just like any other group or religion.
Lets all remember ", We are all God's children". Only he can trully judge us.

By: pswindle on 1/24/11 at 9:51

The is the reason that churches are not attracting new people and they are losing members due to this narrow minded bigoted thinking. I wish that the christians would remember the constitution, which they are always ready to "quote."
There will be a separation of state and church. That's pretty clear to me.

By: localboy on 1/24/11 at 9:51

Yes, but what was the "left-wing" up to while this meeting was taking place...a counter meeting? Cogs and sprockets churn through the night.

By: Loner on 1/24/11 at 10:10

Back from my morning duties...I see that Serr8d has offered a completely inaccurate analogy and personally attacked me for "hating Jews". Situation normal.
Same old baloney.

First of all, if I truly hated Jews, I would be a huge supporter of the Jewish State idea and Zionism in Palestine.

Theodor Herzl, the father of Zionism, predicted in his manifesto, Der Judenstaat, that the most anti-Semitic nations (and individuals) would be the greatest supporters of his scheme. He reasoned that if there was a Jewish homeland, then people who hated Jews would want to dump their unwanted Jews in this "Jewish State"...to make their nations "Judenfrei", or free of Jews.

No, Harry Truman screwed up big time when he recognized the Zionist entity in Palestine. Truman did not want the Holocaust survivors to come to the USA, so he bankrolled the dumping grounds idea. The rest is tragic history.

Zionism is not sacrosanct and criticism of that 18th century Utopian and colonial idea is not anti-Semitic, illegitimate or sinful by nature. The social experiment has not worked out as planned. Instead of a peaceful oasis, the Israeli "settlers" have displaced, intimidated, denigrated and antagonized their Arab neighbors - as a result, perpetual holy war threatens the entire region and beyond.

The US-Israel "Special relationship" is also fair game for criticism. Since US and Israeli national interests are seldom congruent and never identical, the US needs to re-evaluate the costs and benefits of bankrolling and defending that apartheid pariah state.

The Zionist zealots, both Jewish and Christian, are dragging the USA into perpetual holy war...perhaps Armageddon. It is time to cut the umbilicus....we should invite the Israelis and the entire Jewish Diaspora to come here and assimilate; then we slowly but surely cut off all aid to the Jewish police-state.

Serr8d, my old friend, equating support for homosexual rights with supporting and promoting "morally repugnant behavior" is a hollow canard...sounds like Southern-fried pulpit droppings, IMO. That sort of twisted reasoning provides thin cover for those predisposed to hate the GLBT community to the point of depriving them of their civil rights. Embracing the heretical Christian message of hate is a prime example of what I would call "self-bullshitization, Southern homophobe-style".

By: Antisocialite on 1/24/11 at 11:11

While I agree with almost everything in your post Loner, lets not allow serr8d to derail the discussion, sparse as it may be, with his/her personal attacks.

By: not_guilty on 1/24/11 at 11:40

To invoke the name of the Lord in support of hatred and bigotry is reprehensible, bordering on blasphemy, IMHO. Didn't Jesus reserve His most forceful direct action for those who were profiteering in the name of religion?

Who would Jesus fire?

By: govskeptic on 1/24/11 at 12:56

So the media wants to print this very long story to let us
know everyone doesn't think and act exactly as they
wish the rest of us should? What a surprise!

By: richgoose on 1/24/11 at 1:04

Discrimination has been around since the beginning of human society. It separates the classes as well as the ideaology of people. I see nothing wrong with it unless one feels he is being discriminated against.

The relief for that feeling, is to understand that there is a reason that you are being discriminated against. Your panacea for that is to remove your self from that society and move to a place that is more accepting of you.

By: Mike Burch on 1/24/11 at 1:24

The problem seems obvious:

Many Christians are afraid of their fire-breathing God who condemns human beings to hell for having sex outside marriage. So they seek convenient scapegoats for God to burn in hell, rather than them. Homosexuals are the logical target, since male homosexual sex seems icky to male heterosexuals (although they fantasize about women having sex). The pertinent questions are:

Is God a raging homophobe?
Is Jesus a petty, intolerant bigot?
Why would God forgive heterosexual by grace, but not gays?
Why is sex a "sin"?
In what system of justice is eternal torture a just consequence for people having consensual sex?

Orthodox Christianity turns God and Jesus into fire-breathing ogres who then terrorize children when they reach puberty and start to "lust" (as the moralists put it).

It's a sick, sad religion unless people are willing to believe something good about God ... for instance, that he's not an evil monster.

By: trtay2004 on 1/24/11 at 1:34

Judge not lest you be judged.

By: Antisocialite on 1/24/11 at 1:42

The relief for that feeling, is to understand that there is a reason that you are being discriminated against. Your panacea for that is to remove your self from that society and move to a place that is more accepting of you.

Yeah richgoose (is this a 'Goose' Gossage reference?), I assume you wholeheartedly support throwing those undesirables into camps... you know, so they can all be in a place that is more accepting of them.

Do people not realize how incredibly hateful, not to mention completely un-American, this type of thinking comes off as?

Next time you are wondering about the entirely inconsequential matter of whether the forefathers were Christian or not, maybe you should actually read what they wrote:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Did you see any mention of 'homosexual' or 'gay'... wait considering the times I guess the verbiage would be 'dandy' or 'fop'... not in there? Yeah, that's what I thought.

By: Loner on 1/24/11 at 1:43

I agree, Antisocialite; let us not let Serr8d's ridiculous analogies derail the discussion.

I felt obligated to refute the anti-Semitic allegation; perhaps I went a bit too far off course. Our discussions tend to meander and that's not always a bad thing.

Great post, Mike Burch. You sound like a UU minister. I'm a UU myself. No dogma. No hell, comfortable seat cushions and no kneelers in the pews....great music and great sermons, IMO. UU's sing badly, but the coffee hour is great.

We are discussing religion on the LTE thread as well, please join us there, if you can.

By: Antisocialite on 1/24/11 at 2:25

Loner, by all means, refute... I almost explicitly acknowledged your right to do so, but decided on brevity instead.

By: LeeBeamanSleazy on 1/24/11 at 3:31

WOW...this is why I moved to Atlanta 20 years ago....Backwards, Bible-thumping Judgemental.....Nashville will always be a 2nd (or 3rd Rate City) when these attitudes prevail

By: LucretiusLives on 1/24/11 at 4:04

"The second scheme, working now in the background, is Casada’s plan to file a state bill that he said would prevent local municipalities in Tennessee from imposing nondiscrimination policies that protect gay, lesbian and transgender employees. The Republican legislator said he plans to sit down with attorneys and businessmen on Tuesday to draft the bill. "

I can save the religious busybodies some trouble. It's the Supreme Court case called "Romer v. Evans" from 1996. The hyper-religious of the great state of Colorado put a referendum on the ballot to amend the state constitution that prohibited municipalities from enacting gay-friendly legislation. It passed, the voters being majority-bigoted (at the time). The state supreme court invalidated the amendment, however, saying that it was a clear violation of the 14th Amendment's guarantee of equal protection. It was appealed to the US Supreme Court which concurred in very strong language. ("This Colorado cannot do.")
So go ahead, and try it, Christo-fascists: I will enjoy your inevitable defeat in court. But please spend a lot of time and effort on this first.

By: HokeyPokey on 1/25/11 at 8:16

The lunatic fringe is always good for some entertainment, isn't it.

Especially you, knife-boy.

HP

By: global_citizen on 1/25/11 at 8:20

"Discrimination has been around since the beginning of human society. It separates the classes as well as the ideaology of people. I see nothing wrong with it unless one feels he is being discriminated against.

The relief for that feeling, is to understand that there is a reason that you are being discriminated against. Your panacea for that is to remove your self from that society and move to a place that is more accepting of you."

Sort of like a rape victim should ask herself what she might have done to provoke her rapist? This kind of attitude is nothing but vile.

You want to know why gays are discriminated against? Because some people think their "God" tells them gays are evil. Period. That's ignorant. The hate and discrimination directed toward gays and lesbians is entirely baseless.

By: Alphadog7 on 1/25/11 at 8:37

Hey Loner.

That is the most hate-filled Christophobic rant I have ever seen. You just don't get it. Nashville is a town of tolerance and inclusion for everyone, not just gay people. Anti-Christian sentiments are no longer welcome here. Take your hate and go back to the stone ages. Bigotry and intolerance is still bigotry and intolerance even when its directed at Christians, genius. Do you think you can bash Christians in the same rant that you condemn bashing? That makes you nothing but a hypocrite, and there is no room in Nashville for haters like you. Try to learn some tolerance and be more open-minded and accepting of people who have a different viewpoint from you.

By: Loner on 1/25/11 at 8:50

Get back under the porch, Alphadog; I don't pick on the runts of the litter and I won't pick on you. SHOOO!!

I stand by my comments.

By: Alphadog7 on 1/25/11 at 8:53

"Global Citizen: You want to know why gays are discriminated against? Because some people think their "God" tells them gays are evil."

I think not. I know you'd like to pin it on that, but 52% of extremely liberal CA voted against gay marriage. Do you think 52% of Californians are Christian? I doubt it. Besides, many Christians support gay marriage. Obama does not even support gay marriage. Your attempt to link non-supporters of legislation that forces one viewpoint over another with hate, discrimination and Christians does not work. People oppose the encroaching gay agenda because right or wrong, there is no consensus in society on homosexuality. Many people still find it abnormal or deviant. Forcing the issue with legislation will just polarize people against your cause.

By: cookeville on 1/25/11 at 8:55

"The gay and lesbian communities continually try to force their beliefs to be accepted so they can feel better about what they do and who they are."

And you don't? We ALL do that and it is the reason for all the hate mongering going on in this world. It is the nature of this world and for anyone to deny that they don't do it is being arrogant to the nth degree.

The only thing worse is doing it in the name of Jesus, whose message was one of unconditional love. But we can't handle unconditional love because that would mean God doesn't love us any more than He loves anyone else. And if we don't have that feeling of Special Love, what do we have? So we try, in any way we can, from this action to murder, in one form or another, in order to keep those others from enjoying life here and in the hereafter because it's all about that Special Love and what it does for ME.

In the end, it is ALWAYS ALL ABOUT ME, isn't it? But Jesus was NEVER about ME. Jesus was and has always been ABOUT EVERYONE.
We have made Jesus in our own image because we don't believe that message.

By: Alphadog7 on 1/25/11 at 8:58

"By: Loner on 1/25/11 at 8:50
Get back under the porch, Alphadog; I don't pick on the runts of the litter and I won't pick on you. SHOOO!!

I stand by my comments."

Highly intelligent response Loner. If you stand by your comments you are nothing but a phobic hater. Oh, and a hypocrite. Stop the hate. We don't want your hate in Nashville.

By: BusinessLeader on 1/25/11 at 11:14

Sexual orientation, cross-dressing, lifestyle etc is an example of private personal choice, its not like race or religion or ethnic group that you can identify. Many gay men I know, including some friends, used to be straight some even married with 3 kids. This is not about rights, this is about FORCING acceptance of choices that people make. As Business, I really do not care about those personal choices. Why do they get SPECIAL rights to protect THEIR personal choices? I know if my employees are BLACK or Muslim because you can see it the color of skin or where they go to temple on Saturday. But Sex is a private matter!! So should businesses be REQUIRED to discuss what "sexual practices" their employees have just to make sure they know, so they treat them special? Ok then, what OTHER private, personal choices should we pass special laws to protect? -should we pass a law that people who like to Hunt or vote for democrats cannot be discriminated against either? it just goes on and on endlessly. Private lifestyle and individual Taste cannot and should not be regulated, otherwise it is arbitrary.

By: Antisocialite on 1/25/11 at 3:12

Sexual orientation, cross-dressing, lifestyle etc is an example of private personal choice, its not like race or religion or ethnic group that you can identify.

Except that you are totally wrong in that assumption.

I'll give you cross-dressing, which isn't even relegated to gay people, by the way.

However, for you to assert that being gay is a choice is simply untrue. There are now several scientific studies that link certain genes to gay behavior. This shouldn't be surprising since we see examples of gay behavior in species other than our own, but some religious fundamentalists either don't care enough about the issue to keep abreast of the latest information, or simply choose not to believe in the evidence.

should we pass a law that people who like to Hunt or vote for democrats cannot be discriminated against either?

Because of your awkward wording this sounds like you are OK with discriminating against those of a different political stripe than yourself... if that is the case then I really hope you aren't a real business leader.

By: pswindle on 1/25/11 at 5:48

The left is not trying to push their belief on anyone. But, have you ever seen a so called christian try not to save your soul, their way?

By: LucretiusLives on 1/26/11 at 12:53

"Sexual orientation, cross-dressing, lifestyle etc is an example of private personal choice,"

Sorry, this is just untrue. Sexual orientation is innate, not chosen. Just ask the millions of gay and lesbian people in the U.S. They'll tell you: They've always known they were same-sex attracted. Don't want to believe these millions? Then ask the American Psychological Assn. Or the American Psychiatric Assn. Or the American Medical Assn. Ask any mental health professional. Any counselor. Hell, ask the parents of gay and lesbian children. They'll all tell you: It's innate, not chosen

Sorry, but all the evidence is against you.

Post fail.

By: justice2003 on 1/29/11 at 1:30

Dear webmaster members,.Unfourtually,i was not availabale when at the approipate time due to these issues which i have been fighting for so long .I have a lot to share with you and i hope that i may one day inform and let the whole state of tennessee know just how i feel about being put in jail by one of our so-called christian legeslative member along with two others who crossed the line back in year 2003 in which i have been distriminated upon since then and now.I once read a person mention something about carl deam and what role he might be playing.some rumurs might just be true about a building he would like to turn into a hotel which was built for the homeless 2-19-104 3-19-104.

By: justice2003 on 1/29/11 at 1:30

Dear webmaster members,.Unfourtually,i was not availabale when at the approipate time due to these issues which i have been fighting for so long .I have a lot to share with you and i hope that i may one day inform and let the whole state of tennessee know just how i feel about being put in jail by one of our so-called christian legeslative member along with two others who crossed the line back in year 2003 in which i have been distriminated upon since then and now.I once read a person mention something about carl deam and what role he might be playing.some rumurs might just be true about a building he would like to turn into a hotel which was built for the homeless 2-19-104 3-19-104.