Pitch made for Sounds stadium on east bank's 'North End'

Tuesday, September 27, 2011 at 11:52am

Discussions of future redevelopment on the east bank of the Cumberland River tend to center on the real estate potential of acreage south of LP Field, particularly near the PSC Metals processing plant.

But owners of a 120-acre swath of east bank industrial and commercial land north of the Jefferson Street Bridge –– which is also north of the downtown central business district –– are making a pitch to locate a new Nashville Sounds stadium there.

Last week, The City Paper obtained an aerial map that features a new ballpark –– accompanied by possible future ancillary mixed-use developments, a hotel and park space –– on the stretch of land north of the bridge and Spring Street, flanked by the Cumberland River on the west and Interstate 24 on the east. One notable current tenant of the area is Soundcheck Nashville on Cowan Street. Part of the land is in the river’s floodplain.

Chicago-based OKW Architects produced the site plans on behalf of three owners of separate properties that make up what developers are calling “North End.” Property owners are Monroe Investments Partners; LoJac Enterprises; and Cherokee Equity Corp.

“While we would need to work very closely with our current tenants to make sure their needs are fully met, we would welcome new development and the new ball park, if one is to be constructed,” said Don Allen, principal of Monroe Investments Partners, a Chicago-based real estate group that owns 60 acres of the land.

Jim Fyke, who works out of the Metro Finance Department, confirmed a copy of the map had been delivered to him. Fyke said he handed the sketches to Kansas City-based Populous, an architecture firm Metro has hired to objectively look at potential locations for a new ballpark. Sounds ownerships are hoping to replace dilapidated Greer Stadium.

Fyke, the point person on the site study from Metro’s end, said the map is the only map detailing a possible stadium scenario that developers have delivered to the city. 

It could also be the only option for a Sounds stadium on the east bank, which failed to boom following the construction of LP Field in the late 1990s.

“It might by default be the only one because I’m not sure any of the others have been offered or are affordable,” Fyke said when asked if the North End is the only east bank site Metro is considering.

The east bank is one of six potential Sounds stadium sites Populous is studying, with the goal to recommend the optimal stadium location in November. In a recent story, The City Paper detailed the study, which is to also consider renovating the existing Greer.

Metro has opted not to reveal specific properties that the firm is analyzing. Nonetheless, some of the property owners are clear. For example, Metro owns the 11-acre former thermal plant site, which the Sounds covet for a new stadium. The state owns land north of the State Capitol that served as home of long-demolished Sulphur Dell, Nashville’s original ballpark.  

Recently elected District 5 Metro Councilman Scott Davis, who represents the North End area, suggested a new ballpark could be a boon for the area.

“To be honest with you, I would love for the Sounds stadium to be built there,” Davis said. “It could be an economic engine for the people of the 5th district.”

Allen, the developer, said the east bank north of the Jefferson Street Bridge has some advantages over other sites, especially when it comes to ancillary development that a stadium could help spur.

“In the end while we understand that there are a number of really good locations being considered for the ball park, I doubt there is a site in the center of the city with so much potential for new development beyond just the construction of the ball park,” Allen said.

“The North End seems to us to provide a central location with great sight lines and interstate access, is located on Jefferson Street and has a massive potential upside for … [ancillary] projects that generate jobs, tax revenue and increase the city's tax base,” he added.

Fyke has stressed there are only two guarantees as Metro looks at potential stadium locations –– that a site is recommended and that Metro decides whether to move forward.

Before anything advances, he has said an agreement that protects the taxpayer must be reached with Sounds ownership.  

45 Comments on this post:

By: JeffF on 9/27/11 at 12:15

Awesome bit of PR work. This is one of the sites I had in mind when thinking of locations that would make sense for minor league sports. This will allow the Sounds the opportunity to not make the same mistakes other teams made when locating in downtowns to be nearer the night life the typical and overwhelming majority of little league baseball fans do not want, need, or require.

This is a terrific location for minor league families but will not doubt disappoint the typical baseball skank who is unable to differentiate between MLB and AAA in terms of stadium amenities. The location near the interstate along with the amount of land available for parking would make this location a hit equivalent to those teams with league leading attendance (Round Rock, Sacremento, Albuquerque, Iowa) and separating Nashville from the cities that fell hook, line, and sinker for the downtown ballpark sucker game (Memphis, Portland, Omaha).

This is a location that should be seriously considered. Since the promise of LP field never panned out (like all pie-in-the-sky downtown redevelopment schemes) then it would make sense to co-locate in order to take advantage of the transportation and convenience infrastructure already in place and to share opportunities with a struggling neighborhood not named "downtown".

By: localboy on 9/27/11 at 1:44

Floodplain? Did someone say floodplain?

By: producer2 on 9/27/11 at 1:59

How does this differ from the Sulpher Dell area in terms of cost of land? I believe it is already owned by the State and would not be costly at all. There is also an abundance of parking in this area as well. None of the above mentioned cities have placed their stadiums in or near areas that are totally industrial.

By: producer2 on 9/27/11 at 2:25

By the way, both Iowa and Albequerque were designed and built by the same firm Nashville has hired.

By: BigPapa on 9/27/11 at 3:18

At least it would clean up that part of the city. I agree with Jeff. When LP came in we were all promised that the area around the stadium would thrive.... look around it, it looks just like it did before the thing was built. No restaurants that weren't already there, no amenities....

By: BigPapa on 9/27/11 at 3:24

As long as they don't build the thing on the thermal site. I dont want to see THAT valuable a piece of land used for something as limited as minor league baseball.

We're supposed to be "music city", so I think a music venue would be appropriate.

By: BrownMD on 9/27/11 at 4:31

That is right across the river for the water plant. THAT PLACE STINKS!!!!!!!!!

By: richgoose on 9/28/11 at 3:59

BrownMD......But so does minor league baseball!

By: bfra on 9/28/11 at 5:40

Did they include any money with that "pitch"? Karl and his pet council have the taxpayers strapped already, without adding more!

By: treehugger7 on 9/28/11 at 7:27

Why can't we have an ampitheater/ ball park? Louisville does very well with their park hosting music as well. This stadium shouldn't be all or nothing.Why should the East bank be expected to grow with downtown across the bridge? The lame restaurants located there are hanging on coz of LP field, but none of them are new.

By: fdanshep on 9/28/11 at 7:28

Joey Garrison, I think you do a disservice to the owners of the Sounds when you call the current location "dilapidated". Mr. Ward and his partner have spent several million in additions and improvements. It is what it is and the entire facility is not up to AAA standards but it is clean and as fresh as the layout allows pending the determination of whether a new facility is on the horizon. That said, I am still for the Thermal plant location.

Richgoose, minor league baseball has special attraction to folks in small towns w/ Single A teams to larger cities with AAA teams. For the most part the players still aspire to get to, or back to the "Bigs" or they might be grooming for a coaching career. They are not prima donas, just guys w/ a dream.

Plus here in Nashville, for $10 bucks or less you can enjoy the experience of seeing a number of players who are almost there. Go to Yankee Stadium if you really think that major league is the be all-end all and pay $200.00 for a box seat. Over time, I will be content w/ the AAA team we have here.

By: Kosh III on 9/28/11 at 7:37

That seems a great location, just make sure that the SOUNDS pay ALL the expenses for their playground and the taxpayers pay none.

We have already wasted 157m for yet another "study" not to mention 60m per year for Fyke to do the (sarcasm alert) extremely difficult task of "handed the sketches to Kansas City-based Populous."

By: nvestnbna on 9/28/11 at 7:55

What they ought to do is move the mission to the north end and the Sounds to the area south of Lafayette. Close to the interstate, residential in the Gulch and Rolling Mill Hill, and would insulate the tax paying population development in the hundred acres south of the $500m MCC from the burgeoning social service industry.

By: 4gold on 9/28/11 at 8:48

Another study? How many have they done? If they put it on the East bank is it close enough for goers to use 2nd ave too? They say Memphis has a successful situation. How close is their stadium to restaurants etc?

Go Dores, Preds, Titans! Go Nashville a great place to live!

By: joe41 on 9/28/11 at 9:11

You have to make sure that there is ample access to the stadium.

I contend that the reason that there are no restaurants, etc around LP Field is that they are all across the river. Since there are only 10 games a year, most people would rather build downtown. I have eaten before or after the Titans game, all in downtown. It is one of the highlights. Joe

By: macjedi on 9/28/11 at 9:38

Let's just build the damn thing already. East bank sounds great. East Nashville is much more of a "baseball community" and it would be nice to see this landscape growing on that side of the river.

And... nvest... "insulate"... what? I don't even want to know the xenophobic bullshit behind that comment.

By: JeffF on 9/28/11 at 9:58

4Gold, Memphis is not a successful situation. The are dying under the weight of their downtown stadium. The millions of extra dollars it took to turn their stadium into an urban renewal tool is slowly killing the owners. They have missed bond payments as well as rent payments on their office space. The bond owners fired the original management team and brought in another from Philly and they are still fighting off liquidation.

All the redevelopment near their stadium? Dead. Movie theater, empty and closed. Restaurants, closed. Mall, dead. The only businesses are the parking vendors who have a captive audience who cannot avoid their services.

We need to build a Red Rock situation not a Memphis one. For some reason though the baseball fans see this as an opportunity to have a Wrigley Field with bars and restaurants. See Memphis for why AAA baseball with MLB expectations do not mix and are dangerous to the team and the city. See Red Rock and Lehigh Valley for examples of teams with correct expectations for their minor league sports environments.

By: JeffF on 9/28/11 at 10:08

I would also like to suggest the area currently occupied by the truck stop north of LP field. I think everyone would agree that there is very little logic in having an item as large as a truck stop with all its impervious structure located in a congested urban area makes very little sense. Expecially in a flood plain and next to an entertainment venue.

By: govskeptic on 9/28/11 at 10:28

JeffF: I really agree with you on the Truck Stop location. I'm sure the
current owners, which was not the same owners as originally built
it, would probably sell it at reasonable pricing.
With producer 2 posting again, I'm sure we are getting the official PR
responder for the Administration's posting out in public as with the MCC!

By: BigPapa on 9/28/11 at 10:30

As a rule, any city would be wise to look at anything done in Memphis.... and do the complete opposite.

By: treehugger7 on 9/28/11 at 10:50

Great idea for the truck stop location. Infrastructure exists, as does mass transit. There is no sense in rebuilding a truckstop there. I could give up on the thermal plant location if they chose this option. Since it is so reasonable, I have no hope that it would happen....

By: producer2 on 9/28/11 at 11:59

JeffF and Govskeptic,
Seriously, stop with the administration nonsense. Is that really the only thing you can come up with for a person who disagrees with you? I have no affiliation there but I am a downtown resident who is in sync with the majority on many of these issues.
JeffF,
I do like your truckstop scenario, I think the problem is the cost for the land. If you pay close attention to what the administration is saying, they do not seem to want to have a large outlay of cash to actually purchase land. That is why the Thermal site and Sulpher Dell keep coming up. As far as Memphis is concerned, was the area surrounding the current park already developed as is Sobro in Nashville? Did the building of the park destroy what was already a flourishing area?

By: no_one_big on 9/28/11 at 1:07

JeffF stole my idea of getting rid of the truck stop that brings unwanted tractor trailer traffic downtown. Give them money and let them build two or three of those bad boys on the outskirts of town where they belong.
No one ever mentions the other Great Waste downtown. Car lots. It makes no since to have Beaman's car lots downtown. I know it has been there forever...yada..yada..yada...and it's Lee Beaman, but a car lot in a dense commercial area makes about as much since as giving a cockroach a root canal. That is some PRIMETIME Real estate! I don't think the baseball stadium is worthy of that land, but if I had money to invest...which I don't.... that's where I would want to lay my eggs, and I promise they would be golden. The Gulch is getting traction, and the car lots need to go sooner rather than later.

By: MusicCity615 on 9/28/11 at 2:17

Memphis is a completely different city than Nashville, the comparison is not apples to apples.

I want the stadium to be in the Sobro / Gulch area, as that area is already developing by itself and this would be a good addition.

Big Papa I agree with you that we are music city. I think the thermal site should be a park / amphitheatre. I would rather not see a baseball stadium with the possibility of an amphitheatre.

By: JeffF on 9/28/11 at 4:06

Problem with SoBro is access and parking Yes the small population that lives there and the neourbanistas who entertain themselves there would find the locations convenient, but for us breeders there is no way I would want to come into that dense area and try to park, pay to park, drag my kids from the parking, and pay the exorbitant pricing that building on such high priced land would create. Sobro is a niche area that most of the target audience for minor league baseball want nothing to do with. I wouldn't even think there are that many baseball hags living inside the downtown core area (they are a suburban phenomenon) .

Just becuase you can see the interstate from the location doesn't make it convenient to the people who will be using that transportation system. The East Bank, Metro Center, and Jefferson Street areas are perfect for egress and site infrastructure. I would hope that the owners of the team when they are required to purchase the land (ahem) will be sure to purchases enough to either build adequate parking near the interstate interchanges or take advantage of the surface parking already in place (LP Field's voluminous and seldom used lots.

By: JeffF on 9/28/11 at 4:17

To answer the question above, the area in Memphis around their little league cathedral was typical urban I-used-to-be-great-but-now-need-perpetual-tax-money-to-compete-with-areas-people-would-rather-go-or-live. Empty buildings were torn down and replaced with new expensive buildings that have sense gone empty themselves. The only differences are the age of the bricks and the lack of broken windows (the windows not being broken yet are energy efficient at least).

Every once in a while a baseball nut will attribute the success of Beale Street or the Peabody Hotel to the AAA baseball stadium. Hopefully the number of people who think the same has him is in the single digits. Personally I find the Peabody a poor representation of historic luxury hotels (see the Pfister or the Hermitage for good examples, see the Union Station for an even poorer example of the Peabody method). I never understood the charm of Beale Stree, it usually has required beer goggles in order to be interesting, fun, or charming. It is more Tour-on then real (like the Wild Horse).

By: producer2 on 9/28/11 at 4:33

only wish I was as smart as you JeffF. Maybe if you came down every once in awhile you would notice the vast FREE parking lot at the base of the Pedestrian Bridge. While you are there stop and visit the new park that will open in a few weeks. Walking across said bridge might help alleviate some of the "breeder" poundage that permiates the populace. It's great excersize as witnessed by tens of thousands on football Sunday and thousands more for Preds games. The city even provides a free shuttle for those who find the short walk to be too strenuous. But not to worry that site will most likely not be a baseball stadium, instead I see it becoming an amphitheater.

You also might want to check with the owners of the team. They of the professional sports owners group who list not 1 but 2 Sobro sites as their first and second site choices. My guess is they know a little more about what their fans want than you and I.

By: MusicCity615 on 9/28/11 at 5:24

good to read they are considering the Sobro sites. Thanks for the posts Producer2.

By: WestEnd on 9/28/11 at 7:04

I have heard since the election is over that it WILL be at the Thermal Site.... You can book it! It makes sense to park for FREE across the river and take a short walk across the river. Close to new convention center. Also all the Gulch folks can take a FREE bus (the Green Line) to the front door. Families will feel much safer at Thermal site vs. proposed location above.

By: JeffF on 9/28/11 at 8:07

It doesn't matter how you feel about the distance of the walk or the health habits of the typical liitle league fan, if the parking is not outside the stadium you will only be duplicating the mistakes of Memphis and Portland. No amount of Prious-type smugness about a "short" urban walk will make families do games there regularly once the 2-3 year honeymoon is over. You going to send insulting marketing material to families who think the product is not worth the hassle of parking across the river and dragging the kids along.

Insert whitty argument here about how people do it for Preds and Titans games without understanding the difference between big league and little league sports. Having the Grzzlies sitting two blocks from the Red Birds and using the same garages didn't help the Red Birds attain anywhere close to a sustainable average attendance. The only thing that could save that whole deal is a massive helicopter to move Autozone Park closer to the bedrooms in the Memphis area.

Memphis has a downtown population that is 4 times that of Downtown Nashville. It also has functioning trolley lines Nashville would love to fail at as well. Yet their little league stadium is severely underwater. Let me guess, the 30,000 new convention center jobs will allow us to succeed?

By: no_one_big on 9/28/11 at 10:14

If you park at the back of Greer's lot you have to walk a few minutes. The city core would be very conducive due to the wide variety of parking options, and as someone mentioned the free greenline that the city had the common sense to start is an excellent option. Nashvillians are are okay with downtown, and we don't care where the suburbanites park. We don't care if you can't take the interstate into the parking garage. Nashvillians are the ones who pay the taxes property taxes that buys all this crap, so we should decide where it goes. I find it insulting that the Williamson, Wilson, or Sumner County folk even want input as to where we put our stadium or parking lots. If they want a AAA team then they need to go down to their local Costco and see if they can pick one up. Then they can itch and groan about where it goes and where parking is. I promise no one in Nashville will but in with their advice.... we won't care.

By: Kosh III on 9/29/11 at 7:33

They of the professional sports owners group who list not 1 but 2 Sobro sites as their first and second site choices. My guess is they know a little more about what their fans want than you and I."

Let these owners pay for their playground with THEIR money, not welfare checks from already overburdened taxpayers. After they pay for it, they can put it anywhere they wish.

By: producer2 on 9/29/11 at 8:12

JeffF,
I am personally inviting you to come downtown to see all the fantastic things that go on. Tons of cultural events right alongside a multitude of festivals and family outings for all in Middle Tennessee. Downtown is not about the "few" who live here, it is for all to enjoy.

By: JeffF on 9/29/11 at 9:16

You know,\ a majority of actual Nashvillians live in the suburbs don't you Big? It is paranoid to think that only people form outside counties can be suburbanites. I am a Nashvillian and I live in the suburbs. You seem to believe that only the very few permanent residents living inside the loop are Nashvillians. Last I checked because of all the TIFs implemented for their condos they pay very little in actual taxes toward Metro government. Their "taxes" go to the builder to help pay their notes.

No_one_big if you are a resident of downtown it is time you realized that the rest of us peons living outside the castle walls are paying for your supposed sustainable downtown lifestyle. Your public transportation is paid for by us, your public services are paid for by us, and every entertainment venue built by Nashville in the last three decades were paid for by the people outside of the downtown walls. I am a Nashvillian and I pay for the opportunity for you to be ignorant on how the real world works. You are living in a subsidized fantasy that would all fall apart if the money from us suburban serfs dried up. Thank you Duke no-one-big for allowing us to subsidize your royal presence in the only real part of Nashville.

By: JeffF on 9/29/11 at 9:23

producer, I invite you to also leave the castle walls and come out to the real neighborhoods and experience the life we lead without having the perpetual chain of public building projects designed to prop us up. There are hundreds of thousands of us out here living lives that none of the Deaniacs and neourbanistas know or care anything about. Maybe one day there will be a bus or train that will allow visits through our strange world? No doubt it will leave from the downtown bus station or downtown train station or even the remains of the Landport(!) or main library or LP Field or Bridgestone Arena or MCC or the pedestrian bridge or from the Church Street Center garage or the Symphony Hall or ....

By: JeffF on 9/29/11 at 9:35

Am I the only one that remembers that the Sounds owners are developers not a professional sports group? The stadium is a development opportunity for them and their number one goal is to get primo riverfront land for free, not for the stadium but for the mixed use buildings they will put on it no doubt using public financing in order to further reduce their costs and increase their margins. They swooped in after the previous owners (a real sports business) was unable to seal the deal on the development of the property.

IF they do not get the thermal site they will sell or leave. This was never about the love of AAA baseball, it was about that property. Their timing sucked because there was no way the Deaniacs were going to push for them while the MCC forest fire was burning. The condemnation case with all the odd actions of the clown looking judge has further put a dent into the money for the MCC. Dean and his dark lord of "finance" will have to get very creative in order to give away millions of dollars in land and several tens of millions more of bonding capacity for the Sounds. that area is already promised to fund the MCC. They have of course given the same tax to the Omni and the MCC for that project but can they really do that again for such a large property as the thermal site? They cannot expose the public to the budgetary hole operating the MCC will no doubt create (these centers do not charge many customers for meetings), not until they get out of office anyway.

wouldn't you like to be in on the meetings between Dean and the New York developers who own the Sounds? It would be fascinating to hear the strategy for whatever they plan. We have really got to get rid of council term limits so the string of kings will finally end.

By: MusicCity615 on 9/29/11 at 10:02

JeffF-

I believe Memphis is not a good example because I think city leaders looked at a run-down part of town and used the ballpark to be THE redevelopment driver.

In Sobro, a lot of things are happening already without a minor league ballpark. A sounds stadium would only add to the momentum going on already.

By: producer2 on 9/29/11 at 10:11

JeffF,
Your rants get more and more ridiculous. We ALL pay for transportation (which actually runs in the suburbs as well) We also pay taxes for all kids to go to school whether we have any or not and we pay the same taxes you do for public service...WAIT we actually pay MORE taxes than you do because there is an additional tax for both the Central Business district and the Gulch Business district that both business owners AND residents pay based upon square footage of your home or business.
Your analogy of TIFF is flawed in that residents within those buildings pay property taxes just like everyone else. So in my building for example there are 333 units paying property tax based upon the appraised value of our units just like you do on your house. TIFF financing was only the impetus to get the developers to build the structures. For businesses , TIFF only represents an incentive given to companies that is similar to what is given to those who choose to build their firms out in the suburbs.

By: producer2 on 9/29/11 at 10:44

As I read further, I see you are giving out information as to how the MCC is booked and what they charge for rental space. Can I ask where that info comes from?

By: JeffF on 9/29/11 at 2:04

From our discussions before producer. I pointed out that convention centers across the country were habitually giving away meetings in order to get them in the building and you agreed that Nashville will have to do that to remain competitive and that meeting rent and costs was a loss leader to get people into the hotels. The overall dynamics of the convention industry have not improved in the last 1-2 years, in fact there is now more space that must be filled and the economy and technology has reduced the number of travelers.

Are you saying that all these "new" meetings are in fact charging rent or at least paying the operating costs of the facility? I know the NCAA Final Four is going to pay nothing. I would almost guarantee the NRA didn't' choose Nashville because of the city's willingness to charge them through the nose. Where are those operational and administrative and payroll costs going to come from for those free meetings and the buildings dark days in between the to-big-to-fail meetings, boat shows, and bar mitzfahs? Will they be enough to cover that building as well as the old one since it is becoming painfully obvious that the medical trade show was a negotiating ploy and will be decades (if ever) before it comes into existence?

and by the way, buses do not service the burbs, they currently exist to get people from the burbs. Service in the burbs is where the transportation system "we are all paying for" is failing. Officials do plan to put rails down the middle of West End to help the plight of the suburbanite though. Don't ask me how but surely it will or Deano wouldn't be for it. He loves the burbs.

By: producer2 on 9/29/11 at 2:20

You should really have an understanding of the topic before you make assertions that are not true. The convention center will ALWAYS get paid something, the issue is how that happens. Smaller groups typically will not have enough monetary clout or enough room nights to get the space free so they pay full freight to the Center. Sometimes groups like NRA, etc. who are bringing a citywide meeting to Nashville will negotiate a deal where the hotels take a portion of the room rate (for example $5 per room night) and the hotels pay the center. The Association or group then does not have to spend their money for space and they put the cost on the backs of their attendees. When the Center is the impetus for all of those room nights the hotels have no problem chipping in. It's just business but apparently lost on many...

Since the group itself is not actually paying the Center, using semantics folks like you like to say they are not charging for the space. This has never been the case from what I know from most facilities.

By: producer2 on 9/29/11 at 2:27

By the way there are already 500,000 room nights on the books for the new center. This is signed contracts. I am not privy to which ones are paying for the facility themselves and which ones have negotiated deals. The bottom line is people are signing to come and will continue to do so. Just this June, Nashville and Davidson County collected the largest amount of hotel/motel tax money for the City in recorded HISTORY. It is not slowing down my friend, it is just ramping up...
If you read the paper you will obviously see the articles about the growth in the gulch, midtown, and downtown with new residential, commercial and restaurants, etc. As far as transportation, the route with the most ridership in Middle TN starts at the terminal downtown and ends in Gallatin. I think that qualifies as a suburb...

By: BigPapa on 9/29/11 at 2:51

I think the days of publicly funded ball parks needs to end. Look the people of Minn. are debating whether to build a new stadium for the Vikings, and that's a team with a long storied history.
At some point the owners need to realize that the public is broke, and we re always told theres no money for schools, or school sports, or parks or street repair.. but we always seem to find cash to build stadia for these billionaires. That needs to end. Par of being a billionaire "owner" should be owning and operating your facility.

By: producer2 on 9/29/11 at 2:56

I agree if in fact the Sounds owners want a full public funded facility. But I think they should be given the same treatment as many businesses are when it comes to some incentives. Let's face it, there are many monetary advantages gained by having any business locate in our city.

By: no_one_big on 9/29/11 at 8:38

Nashville has to compete in the market that it is in. It plays the game just like everyone else, but Nashville plays the game a little better than a lot of other cities out there. (At least we have in the past) It's business baby!

JeffF, I in my opinion you should stop posting. I am worried you are going to go into cardiac arrest. I live out East. Let me translate, that means East Nashville. I have lived downtown, and I have worked downtown for years. The only time you probably go downtown is to watch a hockey game, or your partner made you go watch something at TPAC. Downtown is far from what you dream it is. I will admit, the urine smell has gone away the last couple of years, but I'm sure it could easily come back.

You are also correct about something. I do use public transportation on a daily basis. My employer even pays my fair. It's nice to sit back and read a book instead of drive. Let me also explain something, that means that my carbon footprint is probably much smaller than yours. You probably don't believe in "science" or facts so I will not spend my time trying to explain how that works. The point is, the government is promoting conservation. That means doing more with less. Which in turn, equals increased productivity. The government wants us to live in the city because its smarter, cheaper, and more efficient. Driving your SUV or minivan 40 miles round trip everyday is dumber, more expensive, and wasteful.

There is a reason that rent is higher in the downtown area....it's called supply and demand. The reason that all these rich young ones want to be there is because typically they have received a better education, and due to the internet, are more informed than the previous generations. They are not scared! They don't have any reason to be.