Burch: Getting away with murder?

Thursday, September 6, 2012 at 10:05pm
By Michael R. Burch

I must question why as a society we are often very quick to apprehend and prosecute some alleged murderers — for instance, those believed to be guilty of killing in our own neighborhoods and cities — but not the worst ones. Among modern-day Americans, who has caused more deaths than George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld? After all, they launched an invasion of Iraq on false premises. How many completely innocent women and children did they cause to die prematurely and unjustly? (To cause the unjust, premature death of an innocent person is, of course, murder.)

Nobel Peace Prize Laureate Desmond Tutu recently called for George W. Bush and Tony Blair to face prosecution at the International Criminal Court for their roles in the invasion of Iraq. Tutu, a retired South African Anglican Church archbishop, wrote an op-ed piece for The Observer in which he said that Bush and Blair should be made to “answer for their actions.” (The Observer is a British weekly first published in 1791, making it the world’s oldest Sunday newspaper.)

The Iraq war “has destabilized and polarized the world,” wrote Tutu, who was awarded the Nobel Prize in 1984 for his role in ending South African apartheid. “Those responsible for this suffering and loss of life should be treading the same path as some of their African and Asian peers who have been made to answer for their actions in The Hague,” he added. Tutu was referring to the world’s first permanent war crimes tribunal in The Hague, Netherlands.

“The then-leaders of the U.S. and U.K. fabricated the grounds to behave like playground bullies and drive us further apart. They have driven us to the edge of a precipice where we now stand — with the specter of Syria and Iran before us,” said Tutu, who last week withdrew from a conference in South Africa due to Blair’s presence at the event.

Other prominent figures — such as world-renowned MIT professor Noam Chomsky, the author of more than 100 books who is considered by many scholars to be earth’s greatest living scientist — have also called for Bush and Blair to be tried for war crimes. Most of the peace activists and many of the liberals I know call Bush a war criminal. Many Europeans agree, as he was forced to cancel a trip to Geneva, Switzerland, due to threats of protests and possible legal action if he touched down there.

According to Ray McGovern, writing for AlterNet, “George Bush can’t travel overseas for fear of arrest and prosecution” leaving him “doomed to become America’s first better-stay-at-home former president.” McGovern was a senior CIA analyst.

McGovern not only accuses Bush of war crimes, he has even “served” symbolic war crimes indictments to the White House himself, acting for a “people’s tribunal” in a sort of attempted citizen’s arrest.

I think Tutu, Chomsky and McGovern have a good case, which deserves a public hearing at the very least.

In the recent past the U.S. government has hunted down and killed notorious death merchants such as Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden.

But what about the death merchants of the U.S. and its allies? There are rumors that the CIA and/or Israel’s Mossad may have assassinated Iranian nuclear scientists, even though the U.S. and Israel have nuclear weapons, have never allowed U.N. inspections of their nuclear facilities, and would consider it an act of terrorism if their own scientists were assassinated.

U.S. drones have even been used to kill American citizens in Yemen without trials or even hearings on the orders of what seems to be a secretive U.S. government death panel.

Israeli attacks on Gaza — at times including white phosphorous — have killed many with virtually no resistance, making that “war” seem more like a massacre.

So I would add Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin “Bibi” Netanyahu to the list of suspected war criminals.

It seems obvious to me that there is a terrible double standard. The U.S. and Israel can murder civilians with impunity via extrajudicial assassinations, without due process of law.

Why do we lock the door and throw away the key for deranged people like John Hinckley and Mark David Chapman, and yet let mass murderers live lives of freedom, privilege and opulent luxury?

 

Michael R. Burch is a Nashville-based editor and publisher of Holocaust poetry and other “things literary” at www.thehypertexts.com.

 

Filed under: City Voices

109 Comments on this post:

By: dargent7 on 9/7/12 at 4:41

I also read that Tutu statement.
Yet, 45% of America thinks Saddam was behind 9/11 and we were justified in invading Iraq.
15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi as was bin Laden. Attacking Saudi Arabia would of been the logical target.
Cheney wanted the Iraqi oil fields, plain and simple. 9/11 gave him his trigger and a plan.
The fact that he and Rice thought they could fool America into believing all the "faulty intel" lies is really beyond belief.
Yet, Rice was applauded at the RNC for her crazy marble-headed philosophy that Romney also espouses, that the role of the USA is to "rule the world" with an iron fist, militarily, with pre-emptive strikes where ever we see necessary.
Taking on the role of "Gods" which Romney believes he will once become as a Mormon.
If there is a God, I hope to Heaven He keeps Romney & Co. out of the W.H. this November. If those clinically insane Republicans get the office keys we'll be in more wars then we can count using both hands.

By: Ummm... on 9/7/12 at 4:52

Heads of State seem to hold a "license to kill." The unjustified war of aggression in Iraq was a horrible stain on America's honor, and although some Democrats went along with the misguided, evil act, our current president voted against it. Not only was the Iraq war morally indefensible, it cost taxpayers a TRILLION dollars. Obama was right to oppose the war then, and he's the right person to lead this country now. If the Teapublicans and neocons regain control, you can bet a war with Iran is just around the corner- Bush and Cheney nearly destroyed the economy, Romney and Ryan just might finish the job.

By: BenDover on 9/7/12 at 4:58

Hysteria level: Moonbat

By: Captain Nemo on 9/7/12 at 5:07

Come on Ben you know Mike is right and Bush and the gang are criminals.

By: Ummm... on 9/7/12 at 5:09

Little Bennie is just confirming that the Teapublicans aren't only hypocrites, they're also morally bankrupt.

By: Ummm... on 9/7/12 at 5:12

Oh, and I forgot to say, nice "thoughtful and cogent" comment, Little Bennie.

By: dargent7 on 9/7/12 at 5:32

All one needs to know about Big Ben is that he admired GW Bush's "stones" to invade, bomb, and occupy Iraq.
Anyone who thinks it takes "balls" to ruin a country, kill it's civilians, kill US soldiers in the process, well, there's no arguing with that.
I'd rather have a beer with Charles Manson than with BenDover.
One's just clinically insane. The other, a Republican. Same thing.

By: Captain Nemo on 9/7/12 at 5:34

I wonder what the old bird will have to lie about today. Does anyone want to hazard a guess?

Looking forward to seeing you old boy.

By: Captain Nemo on 9/7/12 at 5:37

I like Ben, but he does go over the deep end with Bush. I just can't help wonder if he does this just for the fun of it. ;-)

By: Rasputin72 on 9/7/12 at 7:19

I think this is quite odd. If I were in a position to do so I would be screaming my head off for an investigation for Desmond Tutu. The man uses his peace mantra to undermine western civiiozation. I would try him as an intellectual terrorist.

By: Ummm... on 9/7/12 at 7:37

The bigoted monk chimes in only to prove he is the most morally bankrupt of all.

By: budlight on 9/7/12 at 8:11

Burch, I think you would make a great president --- of Iraq. Why don't you move there and then get involved in their way of life, their government and then become their leader.

Why don't we prosecute the presidents who invaded other countries during world wars I and II, or the Korean War (Invasion of Normandy)? Or maybe Desert Storm? Or better still, let's go back and prosecute the civil war criminals.

You are always stirring up something. Well, Obama has not gotten us out of Afghanistan and therefore he has perpetuated the continuance of killing and also having Americans killed by having them go there. He has not spoken out against the Muslim doctor who, by the way, is constantly costing the government (my tax dollars) money because he won't shave his sleezy beard. Claims it is in line with his religious beliefs. Where were those religious beliefs before he commited a heinous crime and killed innocent people at Ft. Hood? Hmmmmmm! Were his beliefs in remission? Or in hiding? Or was he just not a good Muslim until he carried out a Geeee-haaaad (Jihad)?

Rasputin72 on 9/7/12 at 8:19
I think this is quite odd. If I were in a position to do so I would be screaming my head off for an investigation for Desmond Tutu. The man uses his peace mantra to undermine western civiiozation. I would try him as an intellectual terrorist.

Rasp, you are correct. He and obama both (if obama were intellectual, that is). He's a community organizer prone to emotional outbursts (ie, the boston nutty professor defense and his chiming in on other state issues where he has no bizzzinness!).

By: bfra on 9/7/12 at 8:19

Bud's comment & Raspy's comment -- 2 nut cases agree with each other. Come on yogi & Ben your commrads are in a (see who can sound the dumbest discussion), about time for more false comments.

By: dargent7 on 9/7/12 at 8:30

A + B = C.
9/11 happened. Who's fault that was, Clinton's or Bush's, we'll never know.
All I know was GW Bush was president at the time, had the PDB's, had top secret CIA and FBI clearence, and could find out anything availble that was available to know.
That's his job description.
So, Cheney, who lives and bleeds oil, saw an opportunity to capture Iraqi's oil fields.
Besides 50% or so of American morons would not question it.
Turns out, it didn't turn out quite according to plan.
Old white men living in a bubble called Washington don't know shit about middle America or 90% of the world.
So, now, we're digging out, or will dig further in if Romney's elected.

By: Mike Burch on 9/7/12 at 9:13

Dargent7,

I agree. I think Cheney and Rumsfeld had two main goals for Iraq:

(1) They wanted to "secure" Iraq's oil fields for Cheney's big oil buddies.

(2) They wanted to show all the nations in the Middle East that they would have to bow down to the US-Israel hegemony, or suffer the consequences. This would allow the US and Israel to essentially rule the Middle East. And this is why the US and Israel are talking about attacking Iran ... not because Iranian nukes would be a threat, but because Iranian nukes would prevent Israel and the US from invading other nations and maintaining their dominance of the region.

By: Moonglow1 on 9/7/12 at 9:14

Moonglow1: Tutu is correct and it will be his voice and others who could make it happen. I would add Condi Rice, Colin Powell, and Paul Wolfowitz to the list on neocon war criminals. I do not agree with most Americans that Colin Powell is a forthright military man. He made the case in front of the UN for war by testifying that Saddam had mobile labs stuffed with chemicals. My son and I roared with laughter at such a lame concocted lie. Unfortunately, the American public could not see through the lie.

At the DNC, they should have shown on the big screen images of Abu Grab superimposed with images of these neocon criminals.

By: Mike Burch on 9/7/12 at 9:19

Ummmm,

Barack Obama and the MAJORITY of house democrats voted against the invasion of Iraq. But enough democrats joined the republicans for the war bill to pass.

Just one more reason to vote for REALLY SMART politicians rather than chauvinists who hate Muslims, gays, women and everyone else who isn't a lily-white male. Too many of them see war as an "opportunity." Robert Gates, the former secretary of defense, actually said that we need to pay down the debt on past wars before seeking other "opportunities."

Romney and Ryan want to increase defense spending to $8 trillion over the next 10 years. That means more unwinnable wars, in my opinion. Dumbasses with bad attitudes will want to play with their expensive toys, showing off their machismo.

If we want peace, we have to elect politicians with hearts and brains that work simultaneously. None of the most prominent Republicans seem to fit that bill, and especially not Romney, Ryan, Santorum, et al.

By: Mike Burch on 9/7/12 at 9:28

Nemo,

I think BenDover should study the history of pre-WWII Germany, because the GOP is saying and doing the same things Hitler and the Nazis did in the early days, while they were amassing power. Fears and lies are being used to push gullible people into cutting spending for everything except war, in preparation for the "American century" Romney and the Romulans keep extolling. The "American century" means the same thing as the "thousand year Reich" and is based on "American exceptionalism" which is the same thing as "Deutschland uber alles" (Germany over all).

People who vote for Romney and the Romulans are voting for war, racism, fascism, bigotry and the middle class being turned into serfs of the superior 1%, who prove their superiority by being rich, healthy and dominating everyone else. They are like the bullies at high school who belittle and beat up anyone who doesn't walk, talk and look like them.

Romney was a bully in high school. One classmate compared him to the Lord of the Flies. He is a classic sociopath, unable to relate to the suffering of people he doesn't identify with. So he can't empathize with gays, girls who have been raped, the poor, the sick, the elderly. And he especially can't empathize with Muslims in the Middle East who sit atop the oil he and his rich cronies need to rule the world.

So people like BenDover need to think twice about voting for Romney, which will be like slitting the throats of everyone they love who isn't a rich white alpha male.

By: MusicCity615 on 9/7/12 at 9:41

Mike,

you have a lot of hate in your heart. I will pray for you.

By: Mike Burch on 9/7/12 at 9:51

budlight,

I think stirring things up is what the founding fathers did, when they saw tyranny. I just wonder why we threw off the shackles of mad King George, only to bow down to mad King Bibi and Big Oil.

I think Barack Obama really needs to think about the wisdom of using drones and US troops to establish democracies overseas. But he did vote against the invasion of Iraq, and he has ended one war and is trying to end the other. He is not a warmonger like GWB, Cheney and Rumsfeld. Actually, GWB may not have been a warmonger either, just so stupid he was led around by the nose by his neo-con advisers (emphasis on CON).

I think GWB, Cheney and Rumsfeld are criminals, and I think President Obama is commander in chief of a nation that is killing people unjustly. But at least Obama has the goal of ending the wars, while the neo-cons are already salivating for another war with Iran.

By: Moonglow1 on 9/7/12 at 9:57

Moonglow1: People cannot grasp the horror of the New GOP. It is true that their politics mirror those of Hitler. How? One example is by demonizing Islam in the same way Hitler demonized the Jews. The New GOP restricts women's rights, they overturn laws, and they rig elections. They re-write history, control the media, and financial system. They promote globalization at the expense of American jobs and by "sheltering" money in off shore accounts.

So go ahead: vote these New GOP Tea Fascists in. If you do, prepare for the disappearance of the Great Middle Class.

Of course I am speaking to Tennesseans whom are the most poorly educated in the USA. I think only MS is lower in the numbers of college educated than TN.

By: Mike Burch on 9/7/12 at 9:58

Moonglow1,

You make a good point about Colin Powell. I would love to see him hooked up to a lie detector and forced to tell the truth. But I think there is a big difference between Powell and goons like Cheney and Rumsfeld, and that is motivation.

It seems clear that Cheney and Rumsfeld WANTED war and only needed an excuse to attack Iraq, which was their goal (and Israel's) long before 911. So they used the false testimony of an Iraqi codenamed "Curveball" (the name says worlds) to justify the invasion of Iraq, and when the Plames tried to cast light on the sordid scheme, Cheney did what he does best: lie and connive.

I don't think Powell wanted the war, but he is a military man who takes orders from the commander in chief. Working for GWB, when GWB was being told what to do by Cheney, was probably a lot like being a general under Hitler.

I wish Colin Powell would come forward and tell the truth about what happened. I think what he did was wrong, but he may not have known the poor quality of the intelligence at the time. The only person who really knew was probably Dick "the Penguin" Cheney.

By: Mike Burch on 9/7/12 at 10:07

Moonglow1,

I agree with you about the GOP and its racism, chauvinism and fascism.

Albert Einstein, who was a great humanitarian and peace activist as well as one of the greatest thinkers in human history, made the same points about the leaders of Israel in 1948. He pointed out that men like Menachem Begin (a future prime minister of Israel) were fascists, and he predicted what would happen to Israel if they came into power. Today Israel is a prison state very similar to Syria or Saddam Hussein's Iraq. Israel has banned the brightest Jewish minds from even entering the country (Noam Chomsky, Richard Falk, et al). People who call for equality for non-Jews are ridiculed and physically attacked. Peace activists are being murdered, including American citizens like Rachel Corrie and Furkan Dogan.

But the government and media make it seem as if all this is somehow "necessary" for "national defense."

I think that the US is in danger of something similar if the GOP keeps winning elections. I was a Reagan Republican, but I left the part in horror once I understood the dark path it was taking.

Anyone who watched the DNC should be able to see the crystal-clear difference between the two parties. The GOP has become a party of chauvinism, racism, homophobia, intolerance. The only people who will prosper under a Republican administration are the people who are already wealthy. But what happened to the top 1% in Germany, Italy and Japan, once they had their way? Their lust for more money and power was their own downfall.

By: BenDover on 9/7/12 at 10:13

We invaded in '03 because Iraq was in clear violation of the '91 cease fire; because the intelligence reports showed clearly the despot we were dealing with; because he was paying for terrorist attacks against ally nations; because he tried to assassinate an American President; and because we were fed up with Saddam continually playing cat and mouse with the inspectors AND our Troop escalations... that were the only thing that gained any cooperation from Saddam with the inspectors at all.

Given the circumstances and intel. it would have been irresponsible not to take this guy out.

By: Ummm... on 9/7/12 at 10:26

Wow- maybe Little Bennie doesn't have the two brain cells to rub together that we all seem to give him credit for. Take out Saddam- a two-bit dictator who poses absolutely no threat whatsoever, but insane Kim Jong Il can brandish his nuclear weapons with impunity? Your pretzel logic holds no water, Little Bennie. (But nice try at being "thoughtful and cogent.")

By: bfra on 9/7/12 at 10:31

Ben - Your 11:13 comment is so full of it! WMDs was the main reason given for bombing Iraq. No WMDs, even with all the false reports continuing, No WMDs. However, you did include 1 of baby Bush's reason, which all repubs denied, "Saddam tried to kill my daddy". It was an ill begotten war, caused by greed, money hungry & power hungry crazies in Bush's group.

By: Mike Burch on 9/7/12 at 10:31

Moonglow1,

Unfortunately here in the South the biggest problem we have, ironically, is our Christian churches. In the South, Americans are taught to take things on faith rather than think for themselves. Thus many southerners "know" things that are simply not true. They "know" that it is the will of God for Israeli Jews to dispossess Palestinians, leading to 911 and two unwinnable wars fought on false premises. They "know" that it is a "sin" to abort a pregnancy, even though in nature a high percentage of pregnancies do not come to term. They "know" that God prefers Jews to non-Jews, Christians to non-Christians, men to women, heterosexuals to homosexuals, etc.

This is what children are brainwashed to believe in our churches. Anyone who doesn't believe the Bible is threatened with an "eternal hell," a terrible idea for young children to process.

We don't allow religious people to sexually abuse innocent children, but we still allow witch doctors to abuse them emotionally, psychologically and spiritually, with a "hell" that was never once mentioned by the Hebrew prophets, or in Biblical chronologies covering thousands of years. Hell was a pagan Greek dogma created on purpose to brainwash and control the masses. Greek philosophers like Celsus pointed out that no wise man believed in hell, because they understood its purpose.

Today our children face possible extinction -- whether through war or climate change -- largely because we allow them to be brainwashed before they have the chance to think for themselves. I am a very intelligent person who has read widely and been published more than 1,400 times, and it took me nearly 50 years to deprogram myself. And it was a harrowing experience. So I feel incredible empathy for all the children I see toddling off to Sunday School to be taught that God and Jesus are intolerant bigots who send billions of people to hell if they think for themselves.

By: BenDover on 9/7/12 at 10:49

Actually all of those were very valid reasons for taking out Saddam. The Democratic leadership in congress and Bipartisan majorities in the House and Senate agreed.

After we went in though the question became do we finish the job or leave the country to certain civil war, collapse and chaos. It was the experience the country had in '91 that caused us so much trouble in the Iraq War because Bush 41 sparked an insurrection and then left the rebels and their families to be slaughtered en masse by Saddam. Needless to say they had trust issues as to whether we'd do the same thing again and it wasn't helped by the leading Democrats (the same ones who supported invasion) echoing Al Qaeda 'quagmire' propaganda for political gain all during the '04 campaign.

You guys don't even realize how much your whole world view is the product of a political and media spin-cycle that rewrites history as it happens.

By: Mike Burch on 9/7/12 at 10:54

BenDover,

You might try studying the REAL history of the Middle East.

Long before Saddam Hussein came to power, the US was funding and supporting terrorism in the Middle East.

Menachem Begin was the preeminent terrorist in the Middle East. He killed British civilians and Jews who wanted peace with Palestinians. Other prime ministers of Israel were members of terrorist organizations. They killed Brits, Jews and Arabs indiscriminately. But because Americans Jews had money and therefore political influence, the US donated more than 130 billion dollars in financial aid and advanced weapons to Israel's terrorists over the years.

Israel even attacked and nearly sank a US navy ship, the Liberty, killing more than 30 US sailors and wounding more than 100 others. If any Arab nation had done that, there would have been hell to pay. But because the terrorists were bribing American politicians, there was no US reprisal.

The CIA engineered a coup of the first real democracy in the Middle East: Iran's, in 1953. The elected leader of Iran had been TIME's man of the year, but when big oil wanted him taken out, our terrorists in the CIA took him out.

Our government then installed another terrorist as a puppet ruler: the Shah of Iran. That of course led to the rise of the Ayatollah Khomeini, who hated the US for very good reasons. So we started supplying yet another terrorist with money and weapons: Saddam Hussein. He went to war with Iran as our ally, with more than a million people dying. So of course we are still at odds with Iran, not because Iranians hate us without reason, but because they distrust us for very good reasons.

To say that the US attacked Iraq because Saddam Hussein was a "terrorist" is laughable. As long as he committed acts of terrorism FOR the US, he was on our payroll. It was only when he stopped following our orders that our government decided to attack him and "secure" Iraq's oil fields.

The two biggest terrorists in the Middle East are Israel and the US, because they have by far the most military power, and are willing to kill anyone who resists their dominance. If our government acted with some degree of justice in the region, we could have peace with the Muslim world, but to date we have acted more like Hitler than Gandhi.

By: BenDover on 9/7/12 at 10:55

Violation of the cease fire was enough by itself. Bush's mistake was he went to the UN instead of just pulling the trigger like Clinton did in Kosovo and Iraq; and like your loving Obama did in Libya.

By: Ummm... on 9/7/12 at 10:57

Go easy on him, Mike. Little Bennie has a fragile ego (even though he considers his commentary "thoughtful and cogent").

By: BenDover on 9/7/12 at 10:58

Oh blow it out your @$$ Burch. I know all of that history and not one lick of it mattered in light of the potential threat Saddam posed and his history of 12 years of thwarting every UN sanction and Resolution ever thrown at him.

The only reason we met with any resistance in the Security Counsel was that Germany, France and Russia were exploiting the Oil for Food program.

By: BenDover on 9/7/12 at 11:03

"You might try studying the REAL history of the Middle East."

I want you to cut and paste one fact I've posted that's inaccurate, Burch

By: bfra on 9/7/12 at 11:06

Ben - Your advice to Mike should really be taken by you, you get more like yogi with every comment.

By: MusicCity615 on 9/7/12 at 11:12

BenDover-

mike is the epitome of a hypocrite. One week he writes a story how he thinks Christianity should be outlawed, then the next week he has the audacity to compare Romney to... Hitler? Burch writing propaganda outlaw a religion is exactly seems very Hitler like to me... but why argue? "I am a very intelligent person who has read widely and been published more than 1,400 times". Good for you. You still have a lot of hate in your heart, and quotes like the aforementioned make you a pompous @sshole.

If Burch saw an atheist making fun of / bullying a Christian for believing what he believed, Burch would say the atheist is justified in his actions.

If Burch saw a Christian making fun of / bullying an atheist, Burch would say that the Christian is Hitler and should go to jail.

By: MusicCity615 on 9/7/12 at 11:27

In the meantime-

US adds an anemic 96k jobs in August, July's actual jobs number reduced by over 100k, Unemployment is down because people have STOPPED looking for work, 88 million Americans are out of work, and America's debt is now over $16Trillion and counting (and obama wants to spend more money).

Democrat, Republican- these are horrible numbers. Obama states he wants "more time." More time for what? To spend more taxpayer money for his donors' failed businesses? More time to divide this country more than it already is? More time to NOT meet with his jobs council but play MORE golf?

The middle class obama loves to talk about has reduced under him, so why should we believe in him? Obama has spent more in 3 years than Bush did in 8!

By: dargent7 on 9/7/12 at 11:28

The 9:13am post by none other than Bend-Over is so full of crap.
So, Saddam was "playing cat 'n mouse" with the Imperial Stormtroopers aka, the USA.
So, what?
That's what these 5th century countries do.
They've got nothing else to do...desert, 120 degree temps, sand storms, ugly women, uglier men.
Let them be.
Want to spend $1. trillion +, 6,000 American lives, 20,000 maimed for life, to free the Iraqi people?
Like Cheney, Bush, Rummy gave a rat's ass about "the Iraqi people".
These same old white men want to suppress American women, their bodies, dictate laws criminalizing their actions, and want us to believe the Iraqi women need THEIR help?
If it wasn't so pathetic and sociopathic, it would be laughable.

By: Captain Nemo on 9/7/12 at 11:32

yogi is a no show and Ben steps up to bat...wow. Ben gives us plan D of why we went to war in Iraq, when the evidence shown that there were no WMD,s in Iraq. It was a bluff to keep Saddam's neighbors at bay.

Just admit it Ben, it was a lie.

By: dargent7 on 9/7/12 at 11:32

I'd rather have my President out on the golf course than in the Situation Room coniving and conspiring how to invade another foreign country and make it look like it was, "self-defense".

By: BenDover on 9/7/12 at 11:35

I believe that has been your position all along darge as you have been very consistent.

And your observation is clarified in hindsight.

But that was not the position of the vast majority of the people looking at the intelligence reports at the time, be they republican or democrat.

So the question again becomes, after the invasion what were our choices but to finish the job or abandon the Iraqi people again to ruthless despotism?

By: Captain Nemo on 9/7/12 at 11:36

MS615 is farther evidence that the far right is nervous about the election.

By: Captain Nemo on 9/7/12 at 11:37

yogi I will let you know when I am 15 mins away.

By: dargent7 on 9/7/12 at 11:38

11:58am Bullshit Bend-O.
Hans Blick was given access to inspect Hussein's nuclear arsenal.
Yes, he was screwed around with, but, so what? Enough to trump up the charges, "mushroom clouds", and tie him to 9/11 to fully engage in a full scale ground war?
SCUD missiles cannot reach his own borders, much less Israel. They fly off course or explode upon firing.
Why is it that Bush and Cheney didn't attend the coveted RNC?
Because they are failures and Romney didn't want America to be reminded of failure by his own party.
He just promises more of the same and wants those Oval Office keys very badly.

By: BenDover on 9/7/12 at 11:39

Staying the course with Obama means another $6,000,000,000,000 in debt + interest + inflation + the backloaded costs of Obamacare without any offsetting TARP repayments this time.

By: BenDover on 9/7/12 at 11:41

We're not arguing that darge... the question is that after we go in with a bi-partisan consensus based on flawed intel. what do we do next?

By: MusicCity615 on 9/7/12 at 11:52

Captain Nemo-

If you are going to disagree with me, at least use correct grammar. Thanks

By: Ummm... on 9/7/12 at 12:15

Sorry Little Bennie, but that's not the question at all. Although a few Democrats went along with Bush's sheer stupidity and jingoism, most did not- including our current president. That would make him much, much smarter than you and your Teapublican idiots who killed thousands of innocent people and wasted a trillion taxpayer dollars. But here you are, gleefully supporting a Mormon bishop who will start another boondoggle war with Iran as soon as he gets the chance. If there is a God, he never will.

By: Ummm... on 9/7/12 at 12:43

Oh, and by the way Little Bennie, it's the Security Council (not Counsel- that refers to a legal advisor). You're welcome.

By: Captain Nemo on 9/7/12 at 1:00

That is a come back MS615? You are as lame as yogi. You are evidence that the far right is worried. Your post shows fear and hate.

By: bfra on 9/7/12 at 1:54

Nemo - MS615 must be a fence sitter, here he is supporting Mittens, and otherwise, at every turn he is kissing Karl Dean's ...., who CLAIMS to be a democrat. So that makes MS615 wishy washy.