Up for Debate: Another tragic school shooting

Wednesday, April 4, 2012 at 2:10am

There's been another tragic school shooting, this time in Oakland, Calif. Is there anything that can be done to help prevent or minimize the chances of such events? Is this just a reality for America, and Americans living and working in areas where many people congregate daily? Will it only get worse as those driven to commit such acts are pushed to inflict as much harm as they can, more than they've seem others do?

134 Comments on this post:

By: BenDover on 4/4/12 at 10:29

I don't think saggy-pants took a lot of time or energy slack. I think it's a bad bill but it may be one of those deferential things where it was important to Towns and they went with it to garner his support for something else.

The meme that the legislature has been wholly consumed with these stupid polarizing issues is a media created myth though.

By: gdiafante on 4/4/12 at 11:18

Yeah, the media is totally fabricating these stupid polarizing issues. No legislator is actually presenting these absurd bills. The legislature isn't wasting time debating these absurd issues, either. It's a myth...a magic show created by the Tennessee Liberal media bias...

I'll repeat that last one...Tennessee Liberal media bias......

Yeah, I had a hard time not laughing too.

By: Loner on 4/4/12 at 12:22

Hey kids, the lone one is back online....

According to Ben Dover, a black legislator sponsored the saggy pants bill...sounds like an up-sucking oreonic move....trying to prove that not all Negroes believe in making a fashion statement....some got their minds right...like the "liberal" negro who thought that the State Senate needed to address this ridiculous issue....not a single voice of reason in the TN Senate? Nope, it's absolutely unanimous.....stupidity rules!

A TN liberal is still to the right of Ronald Reagan? I don't believe that the Gipper would think that saggy pants are worthy of discussion and legislation at the statehouse level....I remember Reagan's tenure as POTUS; he did not sweat the petty stuff like today's GOP does.

I'm surprised that the national media has not picked up on this TN Senate vote on baggy pants...of course, with two other former Confederacy states already banning them, stupidity in Dixie may not be newsworthy.

87 years after the Scopes Monkey trial, the TN legislature is still conducting a rear-guard action against science....but Ben Dover thinks that the legislature is not wasting time and to suggest so is a "myth". And here I thought Ben was a fiscal conservative who cared about lawmakers wasting time & money....again, I was wrong.

By: BenDover on 4/4/12 at 12:32

I did not say these things did not happen guys. What I said was that the media's emphasis upon these polarizing issues instead of the other business at hand paints a picture that no good reasonable work that would be popular with the largely conservative citizenry of TN is being done by the republican led legislature and that's simply not true.

By: Loner on 4/4/12 at 12:38

So, Ben, wasting time on "creationism vs evolution", saggy pants, guns in bars, anti-GLBT legislation etc. is actually considered "constituent services" in Tennessee?

I see....knuckleheads elect knuckleheads who then proceed to advance a knuckleheaded agenda....I guess that is representative democracy in action....maybe Rush Limbaugh et al. are right and "democracy" actually is a dirty word and a discredited concept.

By: yogiman on 4/4/12 at 12:44

I hate to tell you this, Loner, but you was right when you said your was wrong again. Hey, fella, you're wrong on lots of things.

Maybe you should move to Tennessee and learn a few of the better facts of life.

By: Loner on 4/4/12 at 12:52

The little government advocates in the Tea Party infused GOP in Tennessee proved their hypocrisy once again when they voted to strike down any city laws that exceed the minimum standards of compliance with federal non-discrimination and civil rights laws.

These state right-wing zealots want to concentrate power at the state level...stripping the towns and cities and the federal government of power, whenever possible....they truly are "statists"...they believe in states rights, not human rights.....in other words they are closet fascists.

These Tea-Party types would turn our united and indivisible nation into a crazy quilt of miniature empires....seething with provincial anger, hate, fear, greed and jealousy....and they dare to call themselves American patriots.

By: gdiafante on 4/4/12 at 12:55

Ben, which one is it? Is the media focusing on these because it drives their conspiratory agenda or because these are legitimate constituent issues? You can't have it both ways.

By: gdiafante on 4/4/12 at 1:00

And honestly, with everything going on in the country, if Tennesseans are overly concerned about baggy pants and evolution, they deserve to be ridiculed by the media.

By: Loner on 4/4/12 at 1:02

Excellent point, GD...Ben cannot have it both ways on this issue...is it partisan media hype or legitimate constituent services?

By: gdiafante on 4/4/12 at 1:04

Uh-oh, apparently President Obama met with Nichelle Nichols in February (Lt. Uhura from the original Star Trek) and took a picture flashing the Vulcan live long and prosper sign.

Or as yogi would say, the secret hand signal to all Communists to let them know that the revolution is at hand...lol

By: yogiman on 4/4/12 at 1:07

The media has to have some kind of "news" to stay in business. They can't seem to find anything about Barack Obama unless its a positive feature. And 'them' are hard to find now. They sure can't find anything he says or does wrong.

By: Loner on 4/4/12 at 1:11

More constituent services...or waste of time? Here's a prime example:

NASHVILLE, Tenn. - State Senator Bill Ketron is pushing for the Volunteer State to start minting its own legal tender.

Ketron has filed a joint resolution to study whether the Volunteer State should adopt its own currency.


By: Loner on 4/4/12 at 1:16

Here's another example:

The Tennessee Senate passed a bill on Friday that would bar teachers from discussing homosexuality with elementary and middle school students.

Under the legislation, dubbed by critics as the "don't say gay" bill, any instruction in public classrooms will be "limited exclusively to age-appropriate natural human reproduction science."

Republican Stacey Campfield, the bill's sponsor, says "homosexuals don't naturally reproduce" and has argued families should decide when its appropriate to talk with their children about homosexuality.


By: Loner on 4/4/12 at 1:20

And another:

"The Senate approved a bill Monday evening that deals with teaching of evolution and other scientific theories," the Knoxville News-Sentinel (March 19, 2012) reported, adding, "Critics call it a 'monkey bill' that promotes creationism in classrooms." The bill in question is Senate Bill 893, which, if enacted, would encourage teachers to present the "scientific strengths and scientific weaknesses" of "controversial" topics such as "biological evolution, the chemical origins of life, global warming, and human cloning."


More "constituent services"? Or silly waste of time?

By: Loner on 4/4/12 at 1:27

And another:

NASHVILLE, Tenn. - On May 18, the Republican-controlled Tennessee state legislature overwhelmingly passed a bill that would strip Nashville of its anti-bias rights protections for its lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender citizens, and ban any Tennessee city from enacting similar measures. The bill is now awaiting the Governor's signature. Perhaps even more shocking than this action is the lobbying that promoted it: a coalition of business and religious leaders.


Shall I schlep in more examples, or is that enough?

By: Loner on 4/4/12 at 1:31

When a state government acts as irrationally as the state of TN has done in the past few years, that is a bona fide and newsworthy story, not biased reporting by the ultra-liberal media, as Ben Dover insists.

By: BenDover on 4/4/12 at 1:52

I think we're talking past each other. These bills are not representative of the body of work being done by the legislature. They are outlier bills that have been given disproportionate attention.

The bulk of the work that has been done by the legislature relates to the budget and to tenure and civil service reform and, as much as you guys might not like it, these are the key issues to assuring the long-term fiscal well being of the state and they are very popular with the average voter.

The media, instead, has focused on a small fraction of the work of this legislature that is polarizing to the voters (and down right nutty in some cases) but is not representative of the majority of the lawmaker's efforts.

By: yogiman on 4/4/12 at 2:04

It boils down to one point, Loner; who would you want to teach your children about sex, you and their mother or their school teachers. I always thought school was teaching children how to read and write and study about the historical past of the nation.

But you'd rather a teacher teach your children THEIR personal thoughts of sex instead of your family's? I feel sorry for your children.

By: yogiman on 4/4/12 at 2:26

I see where the Congressional Black Caucus has passed a resolution blaming Trayvon Martin's death as a racial issue... even though they know nothing about it. Makes sense for them, doesn't it?

Wonder what their attitude would be if the white members of Congress formed a Congressional White Caucus? Would they think of it as competition or racism?

By: Loner on 4/4/12 at 2:27

Ben continues with his defense of the TN Tea Baggers:
"The bulk of the work that has been done by the legislature relates to the budget and to tenure and civil service reform and, as much as you guys might not like it, these are the key issues to assuring the long-term fiscal well being of the state and they are very popular with the average voter." (end quote)

I forgot about the union-busting and the selected spending cuts....Ben reminded my about those aspects of the right-wing agenda in the Volunteer State...we can add the TP-GOP's anti-union, anti-collective bargaining and reduction in state services activities to the list of "constituent services" being attended to in the TN Legislature.

By: Loner on 4/4/12 at 2:47

No complaints about this caucus:


Check the photo and article about BHO, at the Wailing Wall wearing the required yarmulke...still, some say the POTUS is a Muslim....and an anti-Semite...what's he gotta do, show his circumcised penis and wear a giant Star of David lapel pin?

American Jews are pretty smart...they are bringing the Latinos into their formerly exclusive Jewish Caucus, now we have a new Latino-Jewish caucus...and the Jews cleverly gave the Latinos top billing in the hyphenated moniker...read all about it here:


Nobody is bitching about those two caucuses, or any of the other factional groups in the Congress...but some idiots still bitch about the Congressional Black Caucus and accuse it of being fundamentally "racist"....of course, it's the same idiots who challenge President Obama's eligibility for the job....the white supremacists.

By: yogiman on 4/4/12 at 3:18

Did you read that Jewish article, Loner? Looks like he's trying to persuade them he's with them... when we all know he ain't.

By: Loner on 4/4/12 at 3:27

Ever wonder just what Obama's prayer note contained...the one he stuffed into the crevice in the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem, Israel? Well, an Israeli newspaper leaked it...here it is:

"Lord - Protect my family and me," reads the note published in the Maariv daily. "Forgive me my sins, and help me guard against pride and despair. Give me the wisdom to do what is right and just. And make me an instrument of your will."


To be fair, US Presidential and Presidential-wannabes up-sucking to the Israelis is not new...For context here's more:

Bill Clinton at The Wall:

Junior Bush at The Wall:

Joe Lieberman and John McCain at The Wall:

Gov. Chris Christie at The Wall:

Herman Cain at The Wall:

Holy Wars Suck.

By: Loner on 4/4/12 at 3:31

Ben Dover...are you still there....or are you throwing in the Starboard Debaters team towel?

By: BenDover on 4/4/12 at 3:34

Ah... I just thought I'd give the brick wall outside my office a turn at the debate loner. Thought I'd have more luck there.

By: yogiman on 4/4/12 at 3:34

Wouldn't you consider it human nature, Loner. How many people have you met with in public that you hated but didn't want to publicize it?

It's good to fool the public, ain't it? Looks like he's done a pretty good job so far.

By: Loner on 4/4/12 at 3:36

"Brick wall"? I've been compared with worse....brick walls are sturdy, fire-proof and good-looking...so, I'll take that as a compliment, my old friend.

By: Loner on 4/4/12 at 3:45

As for your little buddy...the troll....debating with that is like debating with nuts & berries...or should I say, nuts & Barry's?

By: BenDover on 4/4/12 at 4:00

He was two minutes shy of a 4:20 Loner. Maybe one day he'll 'hit it' and we will not have to suffer the birther stuff anymore.

And, yes, I meant the brick wall comparison in the most complimentary way.

Have a great night friend... it's on to margaritas at Las Palmas for me, I think.

By: Rasputin72 on 4/4/12 at 4:16

The public schools have been turned over to the underclass. The people in charge continue to think that there should be some order and dignity in the school system.

What the people in charge do not understand is that an underclass majority has a culture all of their own and should not be expected to live by the social and dress mores of the middle class and the upper middle class or for sure the uppper class.

The underclass is angry and since most are black have a rebuttal that they use whenever their culture is disturbed or questioned. Racism! Racism! Believe me they create racism faster than the rest of us can digest their culture.

By: Loner on 4/4/12 at 4:25

While the lawmakers in Tennessee worry and fret about Charles Darwin and saggy pants on school children, the world keeps turning...stomachs:

BETHLEHEM (Ma'an) -- The International Criminal Court will not investigate Israel's conduct during its December 2008 offensive on Gaza because Palestine is not a state, the world prosecutor said Tuesday.

In a statement, the ICC prosecutor acknowledged that over 130 countries and some UN bodies recognize Palestine as a state.

But, Palestine still holds observer status in the UN, and so the ICC cannot at this time investigate allegations of war crimes committed on Palestinian territory, the prosecutor said.


By: Loner on 4/4/12 at 4:30

See ya, Ben...it's been a pleasure...my pharmaceuticals just arrived....time for a belated 4:20...yeah, if only the troll could do a 4:20.....



By: Loner on 4/4/12 at 4:32

The video starts slow...but ends with a nice flourish....