Up for Debate: Avoiding the fiscal cliff

Wednesday, January 2, 2013 at 1:39am

What are your reactions to the apparent deal struck to avoid the "fiscal cliff"?

Filed under: City Voices
Tagged: Up for Debate

109 Comments on this post:

By: Ask01 on 1/2/13 at 5:05

We did not truly avoid the fiscal cliff. We did manage to avoid going over, only to be left hanging on the edge like a Looney Toons episode.

Fear of the electorate exercising revenge at the ballot box may have actually dawned on them, at least for a brief moment, to force a sort of, so so, tepid, quasi temporary compromise, delaying yet again definitive action.

The GOP had to relent and allow tax increases, opening the way for more. Social Security was, as it should be mostly protected. (After all, it is our money, involuntarily collected with the promise of return if we live long enough.)

I believe this is an omen of things to come. The GOP, in an effort to survive, had to cave on some issues. This will probably alienate some of the base, but could, in the long run, attract some younger, more liberal, but still marginally conservative members as compensation.

In the meantime, the Democrats can take care of some issues ignored as the Republicans sucked up to corporations and the wealthy.

By: Ask01 on 1/2/13 at 5:41

Just a quick addendum. I saw an article concerning the compassionate, conservative, Republican leadership in the House has decided to allow the session to end without voting on aid for the victims of Sandy.

I guess the trauma of delaying any meaningful action on the fiscal cliff was too much for the money grubbing politicos.

By: Rasputin72 on 1/2/13 at 7:29

I think the brinksmanship was unnecessary but then again only a politician knows what theatrics are necessary.

I expected to get a hit on income taxes and I have no problem with that. I have had several months to brace myself for this.

As I said yesterday this is just the first of many fiscal cliffs we will face over the next decade,some of which have not even revealed themselves as yet.

My number one concern at this time is the inheritance tax issue. I have removed myself from the residence of Tennessee in order to beat the state inheritance tax. If something is not done to solidify the federal inheritance tax laws my grandchildren may not be able to live the life they have become accustomed.

They are too young and too idealistic at this point to know that no matter how much they inherit their lives are going to disrupted by the growth of the 47% to 49% to 51% to 53%.

By: Loner on 1/2/13 at 7:41

Good morning, Nashville.

"Deal"? Not so fast...the Tea Baggers in the House have not signed off on anything; more grandstanding and theatrics are surely coming...this thing is not over.

If this nation is incapable of absorbing a 10% cut in spending and the return to the realistic, pre-Bush tax rates, then we are a nation of wimps, cry-babies and spoiled brats, not the hard-working, virtuous and stoic people that we think we are.

As for Congress, we have the best lawmakers that special interest money can buy....hence their inability to govern in any reasonable manner. Without campaign finance reform, the nation is surely doomed.

By: yogiman on 1/2/13 at 7:51

Well, Ask01,

You can blame everything on the GOP you wish but consider the fact the dumbocraps are sitting beside them one congress.

As for Social Security; when that program was formed it was money to only be put in the Social Security fund. That is until LBJ decided he could use it in his general fun[d] money. And no president after LBJ has thought about reversing it back to its original program.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 1/2/13 at 8:23

I'm glad that they did not renew the payroll tax cuts. That should never have happened in the first place.

By: Loner on 1/2/13 at 8:36

Here is a link to a WaPo site that details the "deal":

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/house-members-meet-to-review-senate-passed-cliff-deal/2013/01/01/6e4373cc-5435-11e2-bf3e-76c0a789346f_story.html

Looks like they kicked the can down the road on the Pentagon spending cuts....left the middle class tax rates remain at the unrealistic Bush levels...and kept the Great Society programs fully-funded....same for the New deal programs....and the unemployment benefits for the chronically unemployed will continue....the wealthy will see a 4 or 5 % increase in their taxes, as I understand it....inheritance taxes remain as they were.

If this is the "deal", then we are back on the carousel ride of low taxes and high spending...Congress has promised to pay the trusting ride operator later....for another ride today....the kids are happy, though....the merry-go-round is starting to spin once again....and the machine-produced, up-tempo, lively, carousel music is almost intoxicating.

By: Captain Nemo on 1/2/13 at 8:37

By: Rasputin72 on 1/1/13 at 7:15
NEMO.....If nothing else you have shown why your income is so low. I do laud you for making an atttempt at earning a living no matter how small.

Raspy old boy, I have never said what my income is. It only illustrate that your deceitful ways have not improved in 40 yrs. Keep on trying old boy, your struggle to find the answer to my identity is most entertaining.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 1/2/13 at 8:38

I agree, Loner. It really didn't solve anything.

By: Rasputin72 on 1/2/13 at 8:40

LONER.......It would be interesting to see how you would cut 10% out of our budget.

I think you would find it very difficult without stomping on the toes of the 47% since entitlements such as social security and medicare and medicaid and welfare and unemployment benefits are such a huge part of our budget.

You are my candidate for the number one wimp on this board but you are equipped with a good brain in that ol hippie body. I would like to see what you come up as your 10% spending cut.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 1/2/13 at 8:42

Actually, those are a small part of the budget. The military and foreign aid are the largest.

By: Captain Nemo on 1/2/13 at 8:43

By: budlight on 1/1/13 at 9:33
Rasputin72 on 1/1/13 at 7:15
NEMO.....If nothing else you have shown why your income is so low. I do laud you for making an atttempt at earning a living no matter how small.

Raspy - low life equals low income. Small mind equals small income. The "roid" is so good at running everyone down. But when it gets dished back at the "roid", the "roid" can't take it.

This recommendation must trill you to the bone, having a troll that can not comprehend the simplest thought. It must make you feel important to lead the army of three blind trolls.

By: budlight on 1/2/13 at 8:44

Blanketnazi2 on 1/2/13 at 8:23
I'm glad that they did not renew the payroll tax cuts. That should never have happened in the first place.

What exactly is the payroll tax? We have fed tax, fica, self employment tax, social security tax. Can you elaborate blanket? Thanks

By: Blanketnazi2 on 1/2/13 at 8:44

http://www.usfederalbudget.us/welfare_budget_2012_4.html

Defense is 25%
Healthcare 23%
Pensions 22%

Welfare comes in at 12%

By: Loner on 1/2/13 at 8:44

Add this you-tube video to my 8:36 post....for texture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMJgqg_JePE

By: budlight on 1/2/13 at 8:46

Notice the advertisement on this page: Millions ignore the president's refinance advice. What advice? Get deeper into debt so you can lose your house? Not!

By: Blanketnazi2 on 1/2/13 at 8:47

bud, FICA tax is 6.2% which includes SS and Medicare. It was cut to about 4.2% so people were getting a little extra in their net pay. Not enough to make a huge difference - for people earning $50K a year it would be about an extra $80/mo on your net pay. If we are having a hard time paying SSI and Medicare, why reduce the amount of revenue coming in? It made no sense.

BTW, you pay into SSI until you reach $113K that year. If you earn above $113K you don't pay SSI for the income after that. I forget the amount of the cap for Medicare right off but it is less.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 1/2/13 at 8:48

bud, refinancing your house at a lower rate makes since. And in many cases, paying your house off quickly is not as wise as using that investment as a hedge.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 1/2/13 at 8:48

s/h/b "sense." Need more coffee!

By: bfra on 1/2/13 at 8:50

Nemo - I too found bud's comment comical. Coming from a troll that, by her own words, whines she can't find a job, then when she does, can't keep it. Gets SSI & everyother freebie coming down the Pike. Raspy needs to read a book on "How to act when you have money". His MO is so far off, it is a dead give-a-way.

By: Captain Nemo on 1/2/13 at 8:54

Blanket the small parts of the budget are the only thing Limbaugh and others talk about. It gets the trolls all fired up and in explosive manner they holler like….simple minded trolls.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 1/2/13 at 8:56

Nemo, that's the part that is annoying is when people gripe about the things they don't bother to understand. Get the FACTS then if you're unhappy raise hell. But griping about things that are not even true.....

By: Loner on 1/2/13 at 8:56

If I had to cut down my spending by 10%, I'd probably cut my weekend getaways to the Finger Lakes wine country, Rasp...for you, switching from Grey Poupon to French's Dijon-style mustard would probably save you 10%, right?

Normally, I might resent the "wimp" comment...but, since the comment came from a delusional and arrogant loser, I choose to ignore it....bless the poor devil's heart, he's not all there....thinks he's Thurston Howell III.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 1/2/13 at 8:58

Loner, he's made the comment that his perception is reality. So he can shack up and take advantage of some poor woman then spend the day online pretending to be someone wealthy is OK because that "perception" of himself makes him happy. That is beyond pathetic.

By: bfra on 1/2/13 at 9:01

Blanket - You are batting 100% on all comments. Keep up the good work!

By: Loner on 1/2/13 at 9:03

I agree with lover, I mean Bfra, Blanket's comments are spot on this morning.

By: BenDover on 1/2/13 at 9:04

No cap on the medicare portion BN.

By: Captain Nemo on 1/2/13 at 9:06

Blanket why are you wasting time with bud, on simple facts with bud, these are things that she should already know. It is a wonder that she has made this far in life. Go thing she is a kept woman.

By: Captain Nemo on 1/2/13 at 9:09

I'm not Thurston Howell III?

Rasputin-

By: budlight on 1/2/13 at 9:11

: Blanketnazi2 on 1/2/13 at 8:48
bud, refinancing your house at a lower rate makes since. And in many cases, paying your house off quickly is not as wise as using that investment as a hedge.

Our rate with the credit union is at 3.47%; not bad. But since his company had the big layoff, even with an 850 fico score, we wouldn't qualify. Our mortgage is a big monster gobbling up income minute by minute. But we're hanging in there.

And by the way, bfra, I do have a job. I just don't tell you about it. What makes you think I'd actually share that info with psychos like you?

You are so presumptous.

By: Captain Nemo on 1/2/13 at 9:16

bud my house has been paid off years ago, so my rate is 0%. Much better that yours.

If you have a job bud, then why are you on line and not working? Unless you consider hiding under the bridge and snatching lose change that falls to with in your reach, a job.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 1/2/13 at 9:18

Ben, you're right. I was confusing Medicare with FUTA. Thanks.

By: Loner on 1/2/13 at 9:18

Ben Dover drops into the room....Happy New Year's wishes to you and yours, Ben!

By: BenDover on 1/2/13 at 9:19

As I've said before... the election was a referendum on the tax increase. The party of covetousness won so the people already footing the vast majority of the federal income tax tab will have to choke up a bit more. That's 'fairness' as it has been redefined, so here we are. Since spending is at status quo Bernanke's going to have to keep buying up most of our debt. Hopefully his stash from that big printing run in '08 and the gain from all the securities he bought up at the bottom of the market will get us over the hump and we won't go full Weimar... but you can certainly expect an additional inflation tax on the thrifty just as sure as shoplifting is a tax on the honest.

My prediction stands. Sustained unemployment at historically unprecedented levels. Service sector stagnation... and buy Home Depot and Autozone stocks because the people with any income are going to be increasingly more conservative, doing more of their own unskilled and semi-skilled labor because when a $1 saved is the same thing as $1.50 earned, that's the kind of perverse economy wrought by such policy.

By: BenDover on 1/2/13 at 9:21

Thank you Loner... and Happy New Year right back atcha... :)

By: Blanketnazi2 on 1/2/13 at 9:23

Thanks for the compliements, guys!

By: yogiman on 1/2/13 at 9:32

B2,
I like your advice in your 8:56 post; "Get the facts then if you're unhappy raise hell."

I didn't know that would be your advice when I started raising hell with facts on the usurper in office. I'm still unhappy and I'm going to continue raising hell until someone proves me wrong.

So, welcome my opponents' club. The door's open. Just offer proof, not personal thoughts.

By: Captain Nemo on 1/2/13 at 9:35

Don't fall for troll tricks.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 1/2/13 at 9:37

I don't have time to argue with someone who won't acknowledge facts or comprehend them when they are presented. It is a complete waste of time, Nemo.

Ben, your predictions contradict many economists and those following the stock market.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 1/2/13 at 9:39

bud, can you sell your house or rent it out for more than the amount of your mortgage? If worse gets to worse that may be a good alternative to losing it.

By: BenDover on 1/2/13 at 9:39

"bud, refinancing your house at a lower rate makes since. And in many cases, paying your house off quickly is not as wise as using that investment as a hedge."

If you buy your homes right this is particularly true. Took a mortgage on the condo at the bottom of the market so I wouldn't have to touch any other investments. Got the $6500 tax credit... mortgage rate after deduction works out to a little over 2% and have seen gain of almost 20% on both the condo and the suburb house over the past three years while the other investments have thrived as well. You've got to be careful though because it's kinda like leveraged investing and can really screw you up if you're not.

By: BenDover on 1/2/13 at 9:44

I don't doubt the market will do well, Blanket. That nagging unemployment will continue though because their cure is the cause.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 1/2/13 at 9:48

Ben, you're right. Using it as leverage can be good but you have to be disciplined about it.

We'll see about the unemployemnt - I think 2013 will improve.

By: Eye Nose & Now ... on 1/2/13 at 9:52

I KNEW Obama he save us from cliff as he work behind seen to do it and not like\
republicns who always jump in front of Tv camera b ut Obama he stay in back
ground, We all needs ignore yogiman and then may be he stop telling truth about
Obama as best to tell white lie about Obama he be born in Hawaa instead of
Kenya or he be american citizen instead of citzen of Indochina, and he be leagle
presdent instead of ill eagle one as like i say before yogiman and may be 2-3
others only ones on city P site not Believers and yogiman needs stop destroyng
hominy enjoyed on this site by Believers but he needs join us in white lies as
good of tell lie far outways b ad if republicns ever gets back in ofice you finds that
out but it be too late

By: yogiman on 1/2/13 at 10:25

Sorry, ENN, I'm not telling you a little white lie. I'm simply going by your Master's autobiography as proof of evidence (plus many other facts).

He says his father was a Kenyan British subject. He also advertised he was born in Kenya for 16 years to promote the sale of his autobiography. When did he change his birthplace?

Presuming he was born in Hawaii with a British subject his father, how could he become a natural born citizen of the USA? He couldn't. The best he could have gained would have been dual-citizenship and that ain't natural born citizenship.

It has been proven the "birth certificate" he finally presented after he said he couldn't is a fake. But have you seen the Kenyan birth certificate on him? Is it a fake, also? If so, just who in the hell is he?

With his teenage American mother, the only way he could be a natural born citizen is if Frank Marshal Davis was his father. But even if he was a natural born citizen, he lost his natural born citizenship status when he was adopted into Indonesian citizenship. And we don't know if he ever repatriated to American citizenship, do we?

And really, with his father a Kenyan British subject, has he ever been an American citizen?

By: BenDover on 1/2/13 at 10:45

If new jobs out-pace workers entering the work-force at all over the next 4 years I will be more shocked than anyone. Full time employment for entry level workers, too, is a thing of the past now.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 1/2/13 at 10:55

Some companies are beginning to move their overseas manufacturing back to the U.S.

By: BigPapa on 1/2/13 at 10:55

The GOP certainly needs a make over, but Ive been harping on this since the election. The amazing thing is that I read many conservatives think the reason they lost is that Mitt wasn't conservative enough!

With Obama now a lame duck it will be interesting to see who starts posturing on each side for 2016 and if the GOP has learned anything from the past 3 presidential elections.

By: Rasputin72 on 1/2/13 at 11:03

LONER.....I have no idea who the hell Thurston Howell is but I know an old hippie with failure tattooed on his back when I see one.

I suspicioned that you were just wanted to embrace your life failures with comments about people like me rather than get specific about where the 10% cuts should come from. Typical liberal low achievement behavior.

I will help you out a little bit. It cannot be done without hurting the people and the things that you embrace.

Now that we have established that the you are nothing but a street corner evangelist I will surprise by agreeing that the withdrawal of all the Bush tax cuts and a 10% cut in spending are the only answer to uprighting this country.

Not even you who has nothing to lose except the support of the Simple Six is willing to tackle how the 10% should come. You can imagine that some elected leech in Washington is not going to put his job on the line as a Democrat to support something as practical as your suggestion.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 1/2/13 at 11:08

BigPapa, that is one thing that just confounds me. The GOP needs to take a hard look at itself before it drives itself to extinction.

If Hillary's health is good in 2016 I think she is a shoo-in for the Dems. Not sure who will be for the GOP. I think it's waaayyyy to early to predict.