Up for Debate: Avoiding a 'fiscal cliff'

Tuesday, October 2, 2012 at 2:38am

In the midst of an election cycle, Congress and the president must carve out a plan of attack to avoid tax increases this January. How do you think they should act? What should be done? And how well do you think they'll be able to work together to accomplish such a task?


Filed under: City Voices
Tagged: Up for Debate

127 Comments on this post:

By: Captain Nemo on 10/2/12 at 7:51

I can't bud your fat ass has it covered.

By: Loner on 10/2/12 at 8:02

On page 2 before 9AM....the board is active today. Back to the topic:

Here is a good backgrounder on the "fiscal cliff".....I prefer the ticking time-bomb metaphor, but I guess I'll go with the flow....enjoy!



"Economists warn that the looming tax hikes, combined with $109 billion in automatic spending cuts scheduled to take effect in January, could throw the fragile economy back into recession if Washington doesn't act. The automatic spending cuts are coming due because of the failure of last year's deficit "supercommittee" to strike a bargain. The combination of the sharp tax hikes and spending cuts has been dubbed a "fiscal cliff."

"The fiscal cliff threatens an unprecedented tax increase at year end," says the report. "Taxes would rise by more than $500 billion in 2013 — an average of almost $3,500 per household — as almost every tax cuts enacted since 2001 would expire." (End Snippet)

Who would want to be the sitting POTUS when the bus goes over the cliff?

By: gdiafante on 10/2/12 at 8:09

Loner, I'm of the belief that the Bush Tax Cuts should be allowed to expire. But you can't have that and the automatic spending cuts too, it's too severe a shock to the system.

If Congress was being rationale, they'd roll back the tax cuts for some now, the rest later. They'd also revamp the spending cuts and formulate a long-term debt reduction plan that included entitlement reform.

That's what they should do...if they were competent...

Now, I believe that what we'll get is a last-minute stopgap that kicks the can down the road a few months or years and life will go on as normal. The President (regardless of who wins next month) will be blamed. Even though Congress is facing its lowest approval ratings ever they seem to get a pass...are people really that stupid?


By: Loner on 10/2/12 at 8:09

I say, let the spending cuts and tax increases proceed...it's like pouring alcohol on an open wound...it stings like hell....but sometimes, that's the only way to prevent infection from claiming the whole limb.

Notice how the abject failure of the bipartisan Congressional "supercomittee" got very little media attention...until now....the major media are too busy doing entertainment to do journalism.

By: Loner on 10/2/12 at 8:22

I'm in an "old adage" mood. Here is a morbid mix of metaphors for what lies ahead:

The bus is going over the fiscal cliff...the ticking time-bomb of austerity is about to detonate...the fiscal chickens are coming home to roost....we are about to reap what we have sown....the shit is about to hit the fan....we made our bed, now we must sleep in it.

More comforting platitudes: It's always darkest before the dawn, a little bit of sugar helps the medicine go down....but all this was preventable....an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure....this too shall pass.

By: gdiafante on 10/2/12 at 8:23

The cuts are too severe, Loner. You're talking about a major disruption of most government programs and it would create sufficient uncertainty and chaos that could crash the entire economy, pretty quickly...maybe even on a global scale.

The recovery is tenuous already, why would we want to break its kneecaps?

By: Loner on 10/2/12 at 8:30

Gd puts out another rhetorical: "The recovery is tenuous already, why would we want to break its kneecaps?"

No, let's not break Uncle Sam's knee-caps...but he does need a kick in the shins...to get his attention....he's a real busy guy....but he needs to listen to his accountant, the bon vivant lifestyle is no longer affordable...Sam's got a real cash flow problem....his credit ain't so hot...he's seen internationally as a spendthrift and a bully....he needs a swift kick....time to shape up.

By: gdiafante on 10/2/12 at 8:37

Like I said, I agree in theory, but these parameters were set in order to facilitate some sort of rational plan. I'm not sure they really considered the consequences and when they return, they're going to have to act. I very seriously doubt if nothing will happen. But, it will be rushed and it will be a stopgap, not what needs to be done.

This country is destitute of leadership. Someone needs to step up. It's not going to be either Presidential candidate and I don't see anything worth a sh!t coming out of Congress. We'll continue to circle the drain...

I weep for our children.

By: Loner on 10/2/12 at 8:43

We taxpayers enjoyed twelve years of spending money that should have gone into the national treasury.....the increased spending power of the taxpayers was supposed to stimulate the economy and somehow that would result in more revenues going into the US Treasury...more than would have been generated by the pre-Bush tax structures, according to advocates of the scheme.

Bush's version of Reaganomics & Trickle down failed to deliver as promised....Congress and the POTUS have had 4 years to correct the mistake and they failed to act....now, we are in a deep financial hole.

But Bishop Romney has a plan to get us out of the hole...he wants to tax the 47% of Americans who are mooching and gaming the system. Romney's Tax the Poor plan appeals to many...he may squeeze out a victory in November.

By: Rasputin72 on 10/2/12 at 8:45

Nemo.............If you recall, I mentioned that I am in Florida until November 20th. Will return for the Thanksgiving holidays and return to Florida for the balance of the winter season about November 30th.

By: Loner on 10/2/12 at 8:55

Gd, I share your concern for our kids.....in spite of all the talk of "American Exceptionalism", we are leaving them a mess.

Reform is not on the agenda....sweeping it under the rug is on the agenda....kicking it down the road....dropping back and punting...plastering over the structural cracks...Congress keeps the grand illusion going, with the help of their partners in crime, the US media.

Something's rotten in the District of Columbia...and the stench is emanating from Capitol Hill....but the folks there claim that the odor is coming from the White House, not the Hill....the media asks, "What smell?"

By: gdiafante on 10/2/12 at 9:02

The media can't be bothered by that smell, loner, they're too busy covering Kim Kardashian or telling us Lindsey Lohan's latest legal problems.

By: Rasputin72 on 10/2/12 at 9:13

LONER.........Do you really think that Bfra,BlanketNazi2,Brrk,Captain Nemo,Ummm and Dargent7 really understand what you are posting today?

"These people" by my standards are frustrated by their own existence and want fiscal equality with the learned,the highly motivated,the well informed and the more fortunate. Now here you are telling them that the country is going to face collapse which might make their lives more insidious than the present.

How cruel you are!

By the way you have never been more correct about the future than you are today.

We may not agree on the causes and we may not agree on the fix but today we sure agree on the outcome.

By: Kosh III on 10/2/12 at 9:14

Kicking it down the road. That's what put California in such dire straits.
The REPUBLICANS dominated the state from 1982 to 2010 and refused to provide long-term solutions. Finally, they elected a sensible Governor(again) and eliminated the super-majority requirement which helped cause the problems.

By: Loner on 10/2/12 at 9:18

It's bread & circus in America, Gd...Rome could burn, the Plebeians didn't care, so long as the free bread and free game tickets kept coming...the politicians bought the citizens' votes back then...now, selfish special interests buy the votes of the politicians they finance....we don't do empire well...treasure flows from our capital to the conquered nations we destroyed...we got it backwards.

By: gdiafante on 10/2/12 at 9:22

All I ask, Loner, is someone to ask us all to carry the burden. Not just the 1%, not just the 47% and not, as has been the case, only the middle class. This is America and we should all accept responsibility for her condition and act accordingly...as a nation.

This shouldn't even be an issue. We shouldn't even have to be told. As Americans, we should already know this.

By: budlight on 10/2/12 at 9:27

gdiafante on 10/2/12 at 8:42
That's saying something, Loner. I admire the trolls sticking together like a booger on a finger.
But still...[click]

And Loner, G knows exactly how that feels cause he keeps his finger up his nose all the time and besides picking his nose, he picks his seat.

Kosh, That was not the Republicans in California. It was Arnold - can you say Loozer - Swartzneager (sp?) who was sleeping with a hard line democrat along with his housekeeper (and we don't know if she is even legal to vote or what her party is). So he ruined California. Probably was being brain washed during his sleep by Maria. (Who, by the way, I happen to like even if she is a Kennedy). She did not deserve his crap and crap it is.

Now he and Lewinsky are writing their tell all books to line their retirement pots and stupid Americans (and others) are buying them to make them richer so they can stay in your supposed 1%.

Funny, I don't see or hear the 99 percenters getting upset with Obama, Pelosi and their ilk for being rich. They only think republicans are rich.

By: Ummm... on 10/2/12 at 9:27

Rasputin (bigoted and morally bankrupt monk), as I pointed out earlier, your intellectual deficiency is evident to any educated individual who is unfortunate enough to read your hate-filled rantings. Rather than denigrate the intelligence of others, I would suggest you make better use of your time by pursuing a smattering of schooling. (Or just stop staining the library's keyboards with Grey Poupon and retreat under the bridge from whence you came.)

By: Captain Nemo on 10/2/12 at 9:27


As you recall or maybe you did not see it I say I would meet you then.

By: gdiafante on 10/2/12 at 9:28


By: Captain Nemo on 10/2/12 at 9:30

I understand what Loner post Rasputin and by far Loner is not cruel nor a duller as you.

By: Loner on 10/2/12 at 9:30

I agree, Gd...paying one's taxes is patriotic...it's our duty, as citizens.....tax evaders probably cause as much harm to the system as the legendary Welfare Queens do....it's time to grow up and do our duty....for the kids, if not for ourselves...duties and responsibilities are being shirked....time to do the right thing.

By: Ummm... on 10/2/12 at 9:32

brainedlight, I thought you had gone off to research the answer to my question- did you manage to determine how many grandmothers Willard has?

By: Captain Nemo on 10/2/12 at 9:36

Pay taxes is patriotic. So what does that make a person who hides their money in the Cayman?

By: Captain Nemo on 10/2/12 at 9:38

Got to go again

By: bfra on 10/2/12 at 9:40

OOPS! I missed lots of (clicks), so (CLICK)!

By: yogiman on 10/2/12 at 9:42

I'm back. Be careful what you say, children. And you be careful also, budlight. You're exposing their intelligence, which they ain't got much of.

Has any of their IQs reached the two number level yet?

By: gdiafante on 10/2/12 at 9:50


I suppose you could use the term patriotic, but I wouldn't. I'll be honest, I don't get all misty-eyed and flag-waving on April 15th. But at the same time, I very much enjoy driving on paved roads, having my children educated, having running water, etc.

Are those items perfect? Absolutely not, which is why we should take time and care to update our infrastructure.

When times get tough at home, though my wife and I both work, you won't hear "Well, I'm the more productive so you need to cut back." That's absurd. We both cut back, do what we have to do in order to make it through.

This me, me, ME individuality crap has got to go.

By: yogiman on 10/2/12 at 9:55


These people are the least of my worries in this nation. My only worry about them is their ignorance in accepting usurper Barry Soetoro aka Barack Obama as their president. But Barry isn't really their biggest worry; congress is for letting him pull his breach constitutional law off.

With this group, I just consider the source and ignore it. They're not only the least of my, but our nations worries, also.

By: gdiafante on 10/2/12 at 9:56


By: yogiman on 10/2/12 at 10:16

Go back a little in your comment, Loner. I have never posted one personal negative thing against "Obama" except to ask for proof he's eligible for that office. You and your "buddies" have called me wrong from the beginning but none of you have offered one piece of evidence to prove he is. Why? Because there isn't any.

The last I've heard, he's spent 21/2 million to lawyers keeping his papers under lock and key. Common sense, if you had any, would tell you Barry is in that office illegally.

Repeating my argument one more time: If, as he began claiming in 2007, he was born in Hawaii as the child of a man from Kenya, his father would be a British Subject. The best he could have gotten would have been dual-citizenship. And that is not a natural born citizen.

If he was born in Kenya (as he advertised for 16 years) he would have been born as a full British Subject because his mother, at her age, could not pass her citizenship down to him.

So I repeat the question: Is he an American citizen? Has he ever been? If so, why hasn't he made it know to the public?

Or don't you give a damn whose in that office?

By: yogiman on 10/2/12 at 10:25

How many grandmothers do/did you have, Ummm? I had two, how 'bout you? Any more or less? Well, I guess it's how you was conceived and where the sperm came from.

In your case it looks like your mother got it from a jackass.

By: bfra on 10/2/12 at 10:28


By: yogiman on 10/2/12 at 10:52


I'm sure you feel you're a perfectionist in the English language, so tell me, in you post at 10:27 where you was trying he humiliate Rasputin72 you wrote: "Your intellect deficiency is 'evident' to any educated individual..."

Did you mean "evident", or evidence?

By: Ummm... on 10/2/12 at 11:09

I feel sorry for you Yogi, I really do.

By: bfra on 10/2/12 at 11:13


Ummm - All but the dodo heads got your point & understood it.

By: Ummm... on 10/2/12 at 11:28

Thanks, bfra. I normally just ignore Yogi, but his last two attempts to engage me are so undeniably pitiful that it's hard not to express some sympathy.

By: yogiman on 10/2/12 at 11:33

Don't feel sorry for me, Ummm. You should feel sorry for yourself. You must have went to a different school than I.

The words 'evident' and 'evidence' have different meanings in a sentence as to how they are used.

And bfra (bad f@rts repeating again) you're exposing your ignorance (your IQ) in accepting incorrect wording in a sentence as you do.

By: gdiafante on 10/2/12 at 11:35


By: yogiman on 10/2/12 at 11:37

Well, y'all can have it back, children. I've gotta go again. Have fun. And try to improve your intelligence. I know it's hard, but try anyway.

By: bfra on 10/2/12 at 11:40

Ummm - What little brain he might have left is as old & decrepit as he is! That is obvious by his inane comments..

By: budlight on 10/2/12 at 11:42

By: Captain Nemo on 10/2/12 at 10:36
Pay taxes is patriotic. So what does that make a person who hides their money in the Cayman?

His money is not hidden; we all know it's there. And if you were rich, you'd do everything to pay less taxes as the tax laws allow for it. Or are you so stupid to pay the Maximum tax? You people are HYPO-crites!

By: bfra on 10/2/12 at 11:45

(click) with a muzzle

By: gdiafante on 10/2/12 at 11:45

[click squared]

By: Ummm... on 10/2/12 at 11:49

brainedlight, are you just ignoring my request for your assistance? Then again, maybe the number of grandmothers Willard has is as much a secret as his last ten years of tax returns.

McCain saw Willard's tax returns and then picked Sarah Palin- must be some pretty bad stuff in them...

By: BigPapa on 10/2/12 at 1:04

I dont see how we get ourselves out of this mess without a lot of pain. That means tax hikes as well as big meaningful cuts.

By: Captain Nemo on 10/2/12 at 1:06

bud dummy, we know that the Cayman is where one of the banks are, but do you know how much money he has got, that is not being taxed?

By: Captain Nemo on 10/2/12 at 1:09

I agree BigPapa, but who do this in the crazed climate we live in now?

By: Ask01 on 10/2/12 at 1:24

Let us forget for a brief moment about the taxes, (even though in all likelihood, Willard and the other wealthy elitists take advantage of loopholes, deductions, and benefits which only apply when you earn many more figures than the average American,) and consider the outsourcing of jobs overseas, leaving Americans unemployed, then debasing those who are forced to seek legal government assistance.

It seems a bit two faced to express concern about the plight of the unemployed, when, of course, you aren't calling them jealous, entitled, slugs, when you have been instrumental in placing citizens in these desperate situations.

I know, before the first keystroke, the automaton driven response "You would do the same thing in their position," but there is one key, overriding difference to be considered.

I'm not running for President of the United States, and blatantly placed personal gain ahead of the good of the people and the general welfare.

If the three, no, make that four "R's" Romney, Ryan, Republicans, and the Rich continue to steer the bus as normal, head firmly up their hindquarters, the possibility exists, as I've noted previously, of the people and the government being forced to act.

I've raised the spectre before of the various revolutions throughout history in which the 47% of that day could bear no more and vented their frustrations, much to the detriment of the 1% of the day.

More probable is legislation mirroring that in France raising the wealthiest tax rate to 75%. I've said before, if those claiming to create jobs do not do so in America, their money can be taken to support those they have left unemployed.

There is likely little to be done at the 11th hour which could salvage Willard's campaign and the tarnished reputation of the Republican party.

By: yogiman on 10/2/12 at 2:43


Look back a few years and see who was in office when 'our' jobs started moving overseas. It's human nature to keep your expenses down and make your profits higher.

So, if you had the opportunity to make a 'pot full' of money by moving your business overseas and cutting your expenses, wouldn't you do it? Can you name one business owner who has ever set a profit limit on a business they own? Didn't think so.

That is, of course, until Mitt Romney went into business.