Up for Debate: George Zimmerman and the law

Tuesday, March 27, 2012 at 1:44am

Should George Zimmerman face charges, possibly brought by the federal government, related to the killing of Trayvon Martin?

132 Comments on this post:

By: Loner on 3/27/12 at 7:19

I like to think that the Rasp was not motivated by hate, Ummm. He is a cipher......Hate-speech or Sarcasm?....you never know with the Rasp.

By: yogiman on 3/27/12 at 7:20

According to the Drudge Report, the police said Trayvon knocked Zimmerman down with one punch and began beating his head on the sidewalk which explains how he wound up with a broken nose and banged up back of the head.

A 150lb 17 year old kid breaking a 250lb mans nose and knocking him down with one punch? Was that a 17 year old boy or 17 year old man?

By: govskeptic on 3/27/12 at 7:21

Kamp Loner is a loney farm for those so far off the sensibility scale
as to be rendered neutered anti-socialist in every way.! To become
a cry in the wilderness for attention and companionship is not on
my to do list, so I'll leave that to our NY friend!

By: gdiafante on 3/27/12 at 7:24

That's why it's a mess, yogi. Does the "Stand Your Ground" law apply to the victim as well as Zimmerman? Meaning, it seems the known evidence suggests that the victim knew Zimmerman was following him and that he was armed. Given that information, he chose to defend himself by attacking Zimmerman.

Zimmerman then felt that deadly force was the only defense.

Complicating the issue is the racial profiling, intentially escalating the situation, etc.

By: Loner on 3/27/12 at 7:27

Drudge is pumping sludge and the troll is wallowing in the filth....all of a sudden "witnesses" are coming out of the woodwork in Sanford...they "done seen the whole damn thing"....where were these "witnesses" when the Sanford Police originally investigated the shooting?

As I alluded to earlier, Zimmerman could play this like Joe the Plumber did...he could run for Congress in a bigoted FL US District...Of course, there will be the paid interviews...the book & movie deals, the donations to his defense fund, possibly even working the speaking circuit etc.

Zimmerman could come out of this smelling like a rose.....but he'd better hire some personal body guards with all that blood money he'll be raking in...Zimmerman is a hero to millions of gun-lovers across the fruited plain....he'll cash in.

By: Moonglow1 on 3/27/12 at 7:32

Moonglow1:

Racial and ethnic minorities are overrepresented in the prison population: African American males make up nearly half of the prison population. In Florida, Zimmerman is free, while the black guy is dead. Go figure.

http://www.project180reentry.org/statistics.html

By: Loner on 3/27/12 at 7:37

Govskeptic will need extra attention at the re-education camps....once I get my Camp Charter and my personal Commission and my budget allocation, from the Office of Re-Education & Obliteration (OREO), I can set-up Kamp Loner and start taking in "patients", like Gov and Yogi....once they smoke the pipe of peace and beat on their djembe drums, in a drum circle around the Kampfire, they'll be singing Kum-Bah-Yah in their sleep.

Can't we all just get a bong?

By: JohnGalt on 3/27/12 at 7:37

How long after the media convicted the players did it take for the Duke lacrosse case to unravel?

By: yogiman on 3/27/12 at 7:39

You, and others, are saying a lot about something you don't know, Loner. But it has become a race factor all the way.

So, let's wonder: What would be the considerations if Trayvon had killed Zimmerman? Would it still be a race factor? I doubt if it would have ever became a news report.

By: gdiafante on 3/27/12 at 8:29

Hypotheticals are irrelevent, yogi. The fact is that Trayvon was African-American and unarmed. The fact is that Zimmerman was advised to stay in his car and he didn't. The fact is that some sort of altercation ensued and Trayvon was killed.

Why not wonder what would have happened if the victim was an Umpa Loompa or Blue Meanie?

By: jvh2b on 3/27/12 at 8:32

As with most things, looks like the truth is somewhere in the middle here. There's a lot of questionable things on both sides here, and sadly everything is looking worse and worse for Zimmerman, who if he was just honest from the get go, wouldn't be in this mess.

As the president of my HOA and the Neighborhood watch director, I get where he's coming from seeing someone he doesn't know walking thru his neighborhood. I've called the police on many, one time it was a relative of a homeowner. BUT I let the police handle it. I've also gone up to people and introduced myself...I was polite and found out they were salesmen or something.

Zimmerman is a fool for 1.) not listening to the police and 2.) being an a$ about it. He was clearly confrontational with the kid.

From there it does get fuzzy. It wouldn't surprise me to find Travon started the physical aspect of it, because he probably did feel threatened by Zimmerman...and he probably did get to whopping Zimmerans hind end...and rightfully so. Sadly, Zimmerman had a gun and felt threatened and blew the kid away.

What disturbs me though is all the 'new' evidence coming fwd in Zimmermans favor...no doubt funded by the NRA. Also not a fan of some of the possible media coverup - the kid was suspended for drugs, and the clear fact that everone is trying to play it off like the kid was as young as the only picture they show of him...is fishy. We also have neighbors stating the police are telling them what they saw/heard. So fishy comes from both ends on this one.

I can only hope that actual justice will be served. And while I believe Zimmerman absolutely holds a fair amount of responsibility in this, he may will burn beyond what he would have if he only told the truth from the get go, and admitted his stupidity up front.

By: Eye Nose & Now ... on 3/27/12 at 8:37

Will someone please research it and inform us of the ratio of blacks killing whites
in Davidson County, as opposed to the ratio of whites killing blacks in Davidson
County? I bet it is extremely RARE for a white person to murder a black person here
in Davidson County - and everywhere else.

By: Rasputin72 on 3/27/12 at 9:14

Ummm.....I only go for the statistics. The majority of male blacks are prone to criminality. The country is only about 13% black but the peniteniaries are 60 to 65% black. If that is racist so be it. If I see a hooded black person coming toward me in the dark I would move over to the other side of the street. If a white person without a hood were coming toward me, I would nod and say hello as he passed. Not because of anything other than statistics.

By: brrrrk on 3/27/12 at 9:15

gdiafante said

"As I stated earlier, if the law protects Zimmerman because he thought he was in danger, shouldn't it also protect Trayvon who, allegedly, saw someone following him with a gun."

All the rhetoric seems to be about George Zimmerman's right to protect himself.... what about the rights of Trayvon Martin to protect himself. As far as I'm concerned, if Zimmerman pursued Martin and Martin got the better of him... then Zimmerman deserved every whack he got.

By: brrrrk on 3/27/12 at 9:16

dargent7 said

"He obviously confronted Trayvon since he got a broken nose."

As far as I know there is absolutely no evidence to support this. In fact, Zimmerman's injuries were so minimal that the EMT's didn't insist on taking him to the hospital. Now, I've been in my fair share of accidents and if there's anything I know it's that even if you have a little scratch the EMT's will insist that you go to the hospital just for safeties sake. If Zimmermans injuries were what he claimed them to be, the EMT's would have made a much bigger deal of it.

By: tomba1 on 3/27/12 at 9:18

ummmmm -

Lying ?? I think not. And for you to base that accusation on all of the assumptions you analized without all of the facts is a pretty weak position, but it matters not. After all, when the facts of the incident are all sorted out, I will have the right to change my opinion because I haven't prejudged anything. However, if the facts turn out to not support your assumptions, I would contend that you were in error, but not lying.

Have a good rest of the day.

By: brrrrk on 3/27/12 at 9:22

Rasputin72 said

"Ummm.....I only go for the statistics. The majority of male blacks are prone to criminality. The country is only about 13% black but the peniteniaries are 60 to 65% black."

Gee, you think there might be some other extenuating circumstances? Like poverty? It's hard to come up with all that defense money when you don't have a pot to piss in. But hey, they're black... enough said.

By: gdiafante on 3/27/12 at 9:25

That's a good point, brrrrk. If Zimmerman had his head slammed repeatedly against the pavement, as I've heard, that's a likely concussion, in which case they absolutely would have recommended a trip to the hospital.

Too many contradictions in this...

By: brrrrk on 3/27/12 at 9:27

Oh, and by the way Rasp.... we all know that our justice system treats all economic classes equally right?

"Poverty does not create crime, nor is limited wealth and income necessarily a predictor of involvement in the justice system; however, people with the fewest financial resources are more likely to end up in prison or jail. And the effects of an economic crisis like the one we are now experiencing are magnified for people with less income and wealth.

For this reason, the Justice Policy Institute chose to explore the connection between poverty and incarceration. Crime is down across the country, yet arrests and prison populations continue to increase, and disproportionately impact low-income communities and communities of color." - The Justice Policy Institute, 2010.

By: joe41 on 3/27/12 at 9:28

I am afraid that this law could be used to justify murder. I certainly agree in the use of deadly force in defending oneself, however, hiding behind this law could make some defenses rather murky.
Joe

By: Ummm... on 3/27/12 at 9:32

So, tomba1, what you're saying then is that if your teenaged son WERE wrongfully killed by a "neighborhood watch commander" who was not punished because of a misguided state law supported by the NRA and the gun lobbyists, you would REFUSE the federal government's help in pursuing justice for your dead son? Sorry, I simply do not believe you.

And Rasputin72, please cite the statistics which support a blatantly racist statement like, "the majority of male blacks are prone to criminality." As if you could...

By: brrrrk on 3/27/12 at 9:34

joe41 said

"I am afraid that this law could be used to justify murder. I certainly agree in the use of deadly force in defending oneself, however, hiding behind this law could make some defenses rather murky.
Joe"

Unfortunately these laws are already having an impact. Uninvestigated crimes are on the rise in states where these laws now exist and are applied.

By: brrrrk on 3/27/12 at 9:43

Ummm... said

"So, tomba1, what you're saying then is that if your teenaged son WERE wrongfully killed by a "neighborhood watch commander" who was not punished because of a misguided state law supported by the NRA and the gun lobbyists, you would REFUSE the federal government's help in pursuing justice for your dead son? Sorry, I simply do not believe you."

Don't forget the ALEC connection. Those guys are the ones pushing this law (with the help of the NRA and gun lobbyists).

"From the Florida law:

(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

And from the ALEC model:

(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another, or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

http://truth-out.org/news/item/8043-alec-ratified-nra-conceived-law-that-may-protect-trayvon-martins-killer

By: gdiafante on 3/27/12 at 9:46

Interestingly, had Trayvon beaten Zimmerman to death, he would have been able to defend his act with that law.

By: brrrrk on 3/27/12 at 9:54

Ummm... said

"And Rasputin72, please cite the statistics which support a blatantly racist statement like, "the majority of male blacks are prone to criminality." As if you could..."

Probably from the same place that Rick Scott got his statistics that welfare recipients are on drugs.... out of his ass. Of course Rick Scott, in his supreme ignorance, actually proved, through enforced drug testing for welfare recipients (and for those requesting assistance), that drug abuse among welfare recipients is much lower than in the general population. Gee, who would figure that people who don't have enough money to handle their basic needs would also not have enough money to buy drugs? Someone with preconceived notions (stereotypes, if you will) as to why poor people are poor... that's who.

By: brrrrk on 3/27/12 at 9:58

gdiafante said

"Interestingly, had Trayvon beaten Zimmerman to death, he would have been able to defend his act with that law."

In Sanford? I don't think so. The fact is that Trayvon Martin was in a no win situation; if he ran he would have been in trouble, and if he stayed put (assuming that's what might have happened)..... well, we all see how that may have played out.

By: gdiafante on 3/27/12 at 9:59

I didn't say he would have used it, brrrrk, but it would seem to apply to the circumstances much better than with Zimmerman hiding behind it now.

By: yogiman on 3/27/12 at 10:24

It seems Trayvon, isn't the nice young man he's proclaimed to be. According to what I heard on the radio, Zimmerman had told the police he couldn't see the guy any more and was going back to his SUV. Trayvon apparently came up from behind and "busted" him when the turned around.

It was also reported he had been "expelled" of school. It seems they found several stolen pieces of jewelry in his student bag along with an empty marijuana sack and a big screwdriver. You know, the ones they use to break into lockers? He also had some tubes of paint he apparently was using on the walls of the school.

So, an innocent young man?

By: yogiman on 3/27/12 at 10:27

Another sad thing reported: His mother sold his name to two companies making shirts with his name. I understand they each paid her $350. Was he living with his mother or did she just use his name for money?

By: brrrrk on 3/27/12 at 10:30

So says Ahhhchie.....

By: Ummm... on 3/27/12 at 10:48

Time to smear the unarmed victim, eh Yogi?

By: yogiman on 3/27/12 at 11:07

Well,

It looks like the picture of the young man shown isn't the 17 year old young man that was killed.

They are using an earlier innocent childhood picture. It looks like he was a different young man before he reached 17.

By: yogiman on 3/27/12 at 11:16

To change the subject: What do you think of Obama asking the Russian president to tell incoming President Putin he needs "more flexibility" until after the coming election?

What did he mean when he said; "this is my last election and after my election I'll have more flexibility regarding contentious missile defense talks with Moscow that have been underway for the past three years"?

I understand congress wants to know.

By: yogiman on 3/27/12 at 11:19

Wow! The media has already found Zimmerman to be a registered Democrat. But they can't find out if Barack Obama is Barack Obama's legal name. Do they know what political party he's really in?

By: gdiafante on 3/27/12 at 11:31

Hey yogi, don't trip up yourself trying to smear the young man...I bet you think women who are raped are asking for it too, huh? You are a dumb one...

By: gdiafante on 3/27/12 at 11:34

"What did he mean when he said; "this is my last election and after my election I'll have more flexibility regarding contentious missile defense talks with Moscow that have been underway for the past three years"?

Really, you don't know? You don't realize that pretty much nothing gets done during an election year...and apparently you don't understand that the President is Constitutionally restricted from running for a third consecutive term...and yet you are a Constitutional authority...

ROFLMAO

By: yogiman on 3/27/12 at 11:43

Speak for yourself, gdiafante, I'm not trying to smear the young man. I've only pointed out what I've heard and read from different sources on the issue.

You don't seem to know much about the matter, either. Do you actually know him to be a fine young man who never looks for any trouble.

As I noted, they have been showing a childish photo of the boy. Another site then showed a later age picture of him.

This whole thing has been thrown into a race issue and I'm afraid it might bring that race factor back into the US. I hoped it had been left behind in history but I'm afraid history is going to repeat itself.

By: gdiafante on 3/27/12 at 11:51

What I know, yogi, is that the only things that matter are what happened that night. That's it. I've stated the facts that are known and relevant to the case. If you dispute them, do it. But, your eagerness to paint the victim as a punk, though consistent with your archaic beliefs, is pathetic.

By: gdiafante on 3/27/12 at 11:53

I'm afraid it might bring that race factor back into the US.

Astounding! Should I start calling you bubble boy?

By: yogiman on 3/27/12 at 12:05

Use whatever that little brain will let you use, gdiafante. I didn't state that young man was a punk. I merely passed news I read and heard, but if you want to say he was an innocent young man, so be it.

So, you want to call me 'bubble boy'? Shall we swap names? Should I start calling you gdiafarte since you're constantly blowing in the wind?

Have fun, gdiafarte, I'm going to mow my grass. Maybe you can think of something intellectually reasonable to say.

By: gdiafante on 3/27/12 at 12:11

Yes, bubble boy...as in you live in a bubble if you think there aren't race problems in this country. Hell, you are part of the problem because you can't even see your own racism.

Must I explain everything to you??

By: jvh2b on 3/27/12 at 12:13

Check the source yogi - I have read NOWHERE (and I've read some smear on this kid) that he was expelled.

He WAS suspended - there are debates as to if it was a 10 day or a 5 day - the empty pot bag is the only common thread I've seen so far.

Don't believe everything you hear yogi (look who I'm telling this to..really jvh????)
There is a LOT that is being blown out of proportion by BOTH sides.

By: brrrrk on 3/27/12 at 12:23

gdiafante said

"Yes, bubble boy...as in you live in a bubble if you think there aren't race problems in this country. Hell, you are part of the problem because you can't even see your own racism."

As I recall, Archie Bunker didn't think he was a racist either.... and as I also recall he had Black, Jewish, and Italian "friends".

By: brrrrk on 3/27/12 at 12:30

I have a boss who I'm sure would tell you he's not a racist.... yet I've heard him use the N word several times since I've known him. In fact, I've heard him say once after coming back from lunch, "How does a Black kid living in Antioch afford a Mercedes?". To which I replied, "Maybe they have a good job or their parents have good jobs?".... knowing full well what he was implying.

By: brrrrk on 3/27/12 at 12:32

jvh2b said

"Check the source yogi - I have read NOWHERE (and I've read some smear on this kid) that he was expelled.

He WAS suspended - there are debates as to if it was a 10 day or a 5 day - the empty pot bag is the only common thread I've seen so far."

I saw the reporter on TV last night that broke the "empty pot bag" story in the Orlando Sentinel... she mentioned nothing else.

By: yogiman on 3/27/12 at 1:14

Well, I came in for a drink and thought I'd see how much smarter you guys had gotten on the issue.

Actually, none of us knows anything except what we've read or heard. But, of course, we all have our personal opinions... don't we?

By: jvh2b on 3/27/12 at 1:52

Opinions are like a$ holes - everyone has one - and most of the stink.

Yogi - I dunno what you ate but DANG yours stinks. ;)

By: Captain Nemo on 3/27/12 at 1:56

yogi says that a black friend of Zimmerman said that he told him that Martin was trying to take the gun away from. Now with what yogi calls brains he says, “would he lie for him?’

Now being brain dead from birth as you are yogi, I doubt that you are capable understanding the simplest of simple things. This statement from his black friend is only hearsay and that the black friend is only repeated what the killer said in defending himself.

By: Captain Nemo on 3/27/12 at 2:00

jvh2b

If there are only two ways to do something and both ways are correct, then yogi will find a way to do it all wrong.

Captain Nemo-

By: jvh2b on 3/27/12 at 2:02

Just for you yogi:

Meanwhile, in the Miami Herald, a leaked Miami-Dade Schools Police report reveals that Martin was suspended, once for truancy and tardiness, once for "marijuana residue," and once for graffiti and "possession of a burglary tool" — a screwdriver recovered by a "school police investigator" who saw Martin write "W.T.F." on a door with marker. Inside his backpack was some jewelry, which Martin said belonged to a friend; it was confiscated, and there's no evidence at all it was stolen. The Herald writes that the "suspensions paint [a] complicated portrait of Trayvon Martin." It seems too obvious to even say, but smoking pot, skipping school, owning a screwdriver and writing on walls are not evidence of anything other than being in high school. They are certainly not capital crimes. And yet this anonymous witness and Martin's supensions are being cited as key facts — as more important, than, say, the fact that Zimmerman had a gun, and Martin didn't, or the fact that Zimmerman followed Martin, who was doing nothing wrong — by people who insist they're only interested in "truth."

Got a little something on your face there yogi...oh wait that's just your racism in automatically assuming it's the black kids fault. My bad.