Up for Debate: Lance Armstrong's fall

Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 11:54pm

Lance Armstrong, amid an apparent mass of evidence that he used performance enhancing drugs in his outstanding career, lost his Nike endorsement and stepped down from the leadership role of the cancer charity he started. What do all of these recent developments mean for his career and his accomplishments? Would it be better for him, or perhaps for his charity, if he owned up to the doping charges?

Filed under: City Voices
Tagged: Up for Debate

103 Comments on this post:

By: yogiman on 10/18/12 at 3:49

It is easy to accuse someone of a fault, but you must have knowledge to prove it. There is only accusations of Armstrong's guilt. Only he knows if he is guilty.

It is his personal self esteem to lay an answer to the accusation. Otherwise, remain silent.

By: Ummm... on 10/18/12 at 5:52

The troll says there are "only accusations" against Armstrong, when more than twenty-five of his closest associates, including his cycling teammates, have testified against him. But he's more than willing to believe all the unsubstantiated nonsense he regurgitates about the president- so he isn't just an ignorant moron, he's also a hypocrite.

By: yogiman on 10/18/12 at 7:13

If his "closest teammate" associates testified against him, why wasn't he prosecuted and found guilty?

By: bfra on 10/18/12 at 7:20

(click)

By: Ummm... on 10/18/12 at 7:33

Yogi, you poor ignorant hypocrite, what Armstrong did wasn't illegal, it was unethical.

By: Captain Nemo on 10/18/12 at 7:41

(Flush)

By: Blanketnazi2 on 10/18/12 at 7:47

(click)

By: Loner on 10/18/12 at 8:14

Good morning, Nashville.
Q: What do all of these recent developments mean for his (Lance Armstrong's) career and his accomplishments?
A: He has been disgraced; his wins will be deleted from the record books or marked with an asterisk, to indicate the doping allegations.

Q: Would it be better for him, or perhaps for his charity, if he owned up to the doping charges?
A: Too late for that....the man is now a pariah. That dope might have given Lance legs of steel, but they also gave him a brain of Jello...what a LOSER....that's why they call it "dope".

As a retired postal worker, I clearly remember all the fuss that the USPS made over Armstrong when they hired him to represent the USPS....they dope-tested the USPS employees, but not the spokesman for the USPS...this is typical of our society...we should start the dope-testing with the POTUS, the Senate and the House of Representatives, the state governors and legislators and all their staff...then we start testing the commoners....test the lawmakers first!

By: Rasputin72 on 10/18/12 at 8:20

Ummm.......I remember during my first year in Journalism school I was surprised that English grammar was not more emphasized. I asked my sponsor and one of the great people in my life,Why?

He responded in only the way that he can get to the point.

(1) The 1954 Supreme Court Decisions wiped out English grammar in public schools. (At that time most children went to public schools) Just being able to make a complete coherent sentence is now what is being taught.

(2) You have about as much chance of earning a decent living with a Masters degree in
English as you do being a Blacksmith

(3) The day will come when only a person with a Masters degree in English will know whether or not a grammatical mistake has been made.

That was 1962. I think his comments were pretty much on target for todays world.

The only thing he did not say or imply that pretty much holds true today is that the underclass population has multiplied to the point that they influence politics and the culture of this country pretty much like they influenced proper grammar.

So far they have not

By: Ummm... on 10/18/12 at 8:24

Loner the Stoner wants to drug test everybody! (Probably in order to determine who might be a valuable "connection.")

But seriously, Loner, I've been thinking about your comments regarding the recent debate and the two political parties in general, and here's my analogy:

Let's assume that you are faced with an unavoidable fate which means that you will either catch a cold or get cancer. Would you run around complaining that they are both bad, or would you be thanking your lucky stars and celebrating when you started sneezing and getting the sniffles?

By: Ummm... on 10/18/12 at 8:30

Rasputin, being articulate or even eloquent isn't required to know that you are a morally bankrupt bigot. Now go read some Emerson.

By: budlight on 10/18/12 at 8:32

Ummm... on 10/18/12 at 7:33
Yogi, you poor ignorant hypocrite, what Armstrong did wasn't illegal, it was unethical.

Gee I thought "dope" of any kind was illegal. Didn't some people have to go to jail for dope?

Gallup says that Romney is 6 points ahead. What's sa matter? Don't yall wanna talk about it now?

Lance made his decisions. Many people who are jealous of someone will say anything -- even lies -- to bring them down. Just saying that his "teammates" etc., might have just been jealous.

Oh well; we'll never know cause he is sticking to his story - sort of like Obama. If you tell a lie long enough, you start to believe it -- and so does everyone else in the democratic party.

By: Loner on 10/18/12 at 8:32

Off topic alert:

The Feds entrapped another young Muslim terror-wannabe...once again, in Bloomberg's NYC....this time around, the 21-year old is the son of a wealthy banker...the family hails from Bangladesh....the kid's name is Quazi Mohammad Rezwanul Ahsan Nafis,.....with a name like that, he should have considered blowing up his parents, not the Federal Reserve.

If it wasn't for these expensive federal sting operations, Homeland Security would have little to show for itself, in the way of effectiveness or efficiency. These stings come along like clockwork....every so often Homeland Security has to trot out a "bad guy", in order to justify the massive funding these programs receive.

Mayor Bloomberg trains his police force in Israel....ergo, we should expect this sort of holy war related BS.....Bloomberg refers to NYC as, "the world's largest Jewish City".....of course, that sort of braggadocio invites the Jihadists to strike the Big Apple...AKA: Jew York City.

We should be fighting the causes of terrorism...terrorism is not the cause, it is the effect...it is the symptom, not the disease itself. The US-Israel "special relationship" is the cause...terrorism directed at the US is the effect.

By: Rasputin72 on 10/18/12 at 8:36

LONER.......You are red hot today and right on target with your 8:32

By: yogiman on 10/18/12 at 8:43

I'm afraid you don't know the difference between laws and ethics, Ummm. A law is a rule passed by the legislature citizens are required to follow. Ethics is not a violation of a law. it is a persons attitude for personal gain.

Neither has anything to do with the other.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 10/18/12 at 8:46

(click)

By: judyboodo@yahoo.com on 10/18/12 at 8:49

Wow, what a noise! Hell has frozen over! The Tennessean has endorsed Mitt for President. As far as Armstrong is concerned he's just like the rest of world class cyclists, a doper. The European powers that be have hated him for years, too much winning, too much fame and much too American. I don't think they can find anybody that anybody has ever heard of to give the titles to.

By: yogiman on 10/18/12 at 8:51

It depends on what dope you're using, budlight. Isn't the marijuana "President" Obama is smoking still illegal?

By: Loner on 10/18/12 at 8:51

Thank you, Rasputin....I know that the comment was off-topic, but it is topical this morning....it's the big news item of the day....a beardless, good-looking, young man, whose family is wealthy and well-connected, is not the usual face of Al Qaeda et al....with this new image of what a terrorist is supposed to look like, Americans can feel comfortable hating all Muslims, not just the bearded, wild-eyed, religious fanatics in traditional ME or Central Asian clothing....thanks to these orchestrated sting operations, all Muslims can now be considered potential threats to America....for Homeland Security, that means "Mission Accomplished".

By: Ummm... on 10/18/12 at 8:53

Loner, if the Teapublican USSC's horrendous Citizens United decision allows Romney's ultra-rich backers to buy the White House, it will be a nail in the coffin of representative democracy. That decision must be reversed if we are to preserve any semblance of our once-vaunted political system. But I think you dismiss my analogy too easily- I chose the common cold vs. cancer for a reason, and I believe strongly that the choice is that crucial. Of course Obama owes- but the sad fact is that Jesus Christ couldn't be elected president without owing. That, as Uncle Walter used to say is just "the way it is." What unimaginable horrors might be enshrined in our government if Willard and his henchmen appoint the next two or three Teapublican Supreme Court justices???

By: Loner on 10/18/12 at 8:57

Speaking of "dope", is my morning latte considered, "dope"? Come get me, copper!

By: Ummm... on 10/18/12 at 8:57

Between Yogi and brainedlight, the board is awash in sheer ignorance this morning. I'll hang in as long as I can, but this could become too nauseating to deal with...

By: yogiman on 10/18/12 at 8:59

Well, judyboodo,

Since Obama is a confessed dope (marijuana) user, should he be kept in office? I hope he ain't high on dope too many days in the future. Hell, he might get so high on it he'll get us in a war just to have more fun.

By: judyboodo@yahoo.com on 10/18/12 at 9:06

Nah yogiman, most marijuana smokers, and I would defer to Loner here, like things mellow and quite. Kinda like our economy. Maybe that's why Obama keeps things like they are and have been.

By: Loner on 10/18/12 at 9:11

Your cold vs cancer analogy is not entirely fitting, Ummm?

The common cold goes away in a short period of time....a better analogy might be that the GOP tickets represents stage-4 terminal cancer.....the Democratic ticket, in that analogy would be like having AIIDS...treatable, but debilitating and still terminal in the long run.

If we do not get the money out of politics...and soon....our enemies will defeat us without invading us....they won't have to kill America; America will die from terminal corruption....all our enemies need to do is sit and wait...we're going down.

The Dems condemned Citizens United before they embraced it...like the Faith-based Initiative, Homeland Security etc., CU is here to stay...it's a bipartisan winner.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 10/18/12 at 9:14

Romney has been encouraging business owners to tell their employees who to vote for. Unbelievable.

By: Loner on 10/18/12 at 9:15

Thank you, Judy....like Sergeant Schultz.... "I know nussing!" about Cannabis.

Where have you been, Judy....I missed your commentary.

By: Loner on 10/18/12 at 9:19

Freshly-minted GOP slogan for2012:

"Vote Romney & Ryan...or Your Job Will Be Dyin'."

Nothing like a little job-related blackmail to get folks to see the light.

Right-wing employers are sandbagging...waiting to see who wins in Nov.....if it's Romney, they'll hire...if not, they'll hunker down.

By: Loner on 10/18/12 at 9:30

I re-posted my 8:32 comment here:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8601-201_162-57534873.html?assetTypeId=41&blogId=&tag=contentBody;commentWrapper

I like to play more than one BINGO card at a time.

By: Badbob on 10/18/12 at 9:30

I note the similarities between Armstrong and Fate Thomas. Ill gotten gains seem to spur one to charitable activities.

It is pretty sad to loose the admiration of someone you respected.

By: Badbob on 10/18/12 at 9:31

Ooops, that didn't come out exactly right...

It is sad to loose respect for someone you have admired for so many years.

By: Loner on 10/18/12 at 9:33

For you, Judy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6vyTM_qJAE

Enjoy!

By: Ummm... on 10/18/12 at 9:34

http://www.sherrodbrown.com/petition/w1112cu/

(Btw Loner, Senator Brown isn't a Teapublican.)

By: judyboodo@yahoo.com on 10/18/12 at 9:36

Oh, I'm lurking about Loner. I usually only comment on things that I care about. Today in our poor excuse for a daily we find out that Metro needs $440 million to keep up with maintenance at public schools while the mayor wants to spend $100 million on a unwanted and unneeded express bus line. The tax and spend days are behind us, saner fiscal policy is almost here.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 10/18/12 at 9:46

judy, are you against developing better public trans in Metro or do you just disagree with the BRT?

By: Loner on 10/18/12 at 9:46

Badbob....Coach Sandusky was big on charity too....it was all about the giving.

As it turns out, a lot of these "charitable activities" mask a secret agenda...for Lance and for Sandusky, and for so many other phonies, they provided good cover.

Some say, "Let the charities do the social welfare work, not the government." Of course, I disagree with that. Government, while not perfect, does a much better job of protecting our most vulnerable.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 10/18/12 at 9:47

I agree with that, Loner. Many 501 (c) 3 organizations exist for a hidden agenda.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 10/18/12 at 10:05

I agree that CU will never be struck down at this point. That genie is out of the bottle for good.

By: Ummm... on 10/18/12 at 10:09

Loner, I only provided that link to demonstrate that not every Democrat "embraces" Citizens United as you implied. I fear you may be given over to complete cynicism politically, and that renders you somewhat marginal and largely ineffective. Holding on to idealism may seem like the noble thing to do, but I think pragmatism is a better companion when it comes to effecting political change.

By: Loner on 10/18/12 at 10:11

Both major political parties have now tasted of the forbidden fruits that CU has offered to them....one bite and one is addicted....yes, there's trouble in the garden of Eden.....the serpent is peddling fruit.....and the demand is high....real high.

By: brrrrk on 10/18/12 at 10:14

Loner said

"Nothing like a little job-related blackmail to get folks to see the light."

On NFIB Conference Call, Romney Urges Employers to Tell Employees How to Vote, Just Like the Kochs

http://www.prwatch.org/news/2012/10/11804/nfib-conference-call-romney-urges-employers-tell-employees-how-vote-just-kochs

And this is how the NFIB defines itself.....

"The National Federation of Independent Business is the leading small business association representing small and independent businesses. A nonprofit, nonpartisan organization founded in 1943, NFIB represents the consensus views of its members in Washington and all 50 state capitals."

It also happens that the recruiter (who I worked with for several years) that recruited me for my first consulting gig used to work for the NFIB.... nothing nonpartisan about this group.

By: Loner on 10/18/12 at 10:23

Umm expressed a fear: " I fear you (Loner) may be given over to complete cynicism politically, and that renders you somewhat marginal and largely ineffective."

I share that fear, Ummm...certainly, in the case of the US-Israel "Special Relationship" and the "Unshakeable Bond", I am on the margins...unquestioning support for Israel is bipartisan and deep.

As far as being, "ineffective", I'm not so sure. My posts on the Jerusalem Post were so painfully true, that they finally banned me for life.....but not before I expressed my minority opinion and possibly changed some people's views. The editors of the Jerusalem Post consider my comments to be too dangerous for publication, so I view my banishment as an indication of effectiveness.

I protest every Monday afternoon, 3-4, in front of the County Courthouse, in Albion, NY....my sign reads: HOLY WARS SUCK. A year ago, when we started the vigil, we got few thumbs-ups or horn honks of approval....now we get lots of encouragement from passing motorists and from pedestrians.

I think globally, act locally......and I work the internet landscape too...I feel good about myself and what I am doing....it's lonely work sometimes, but hey, I am a loner.

By: judyboodo@yahoo.com on 10/18/12 at 10:35

Thanks, Loner, here's one of my favorites, we were all this young once. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfxoM6trtZE&feature=related
@ Blanketnazi2, I'm not against mass transit Blanket, just things that are not wanted, needed and don't make any common sense. West End is not the place to do this, now is not the time to do this (money's to tight), there is no great outcry for this and Nashville does not have traffic problems to justify this. And if I hear about Portland, Austin, Seattle or any other city that we are supposedly deficient to I'll scream. We need to understand we have a mayor that wants a greater political position. He wants to saddle this city and it's taxpayers with whatever debt he can so he can point to these "improvements" that he brought to us in a future campaign. We have enough risk and debt for a long time in the new Convention Center, we don't need any more for a long, long time. Just because you "want it" doesn't mean "you can need it or can have it". We also need to understand that all the consultants, experts and people who work for entities such the MTA & RPM and Assc. have a vested interest in this type of promotion. Their jobs depend on justifying their existence. You should be outraged that the powers that be in city government approved the excessive number and cost of the bicycle lane appliqué's that were installed on Woodlawn Drive earlier this year, (about 100). If these were needed in the number that were installed then bicyclists must be the stupidness people on the face of the earth. We just don't have the money for this kind of stuff.

By: Loner on 10/18/12 at 10:39

One more thing, Ummm...As for getting the money out of politics, I believe that would be Mission Impossible....so, I leave the really hopeless pursuits to the more idealistic.

I do tend to concentrate on the "Special Relationship" issue, mainly because I view it as being extremely risky and counter-productive for the USA. If the nukes start flying in a global holy war, all the other issues that we all now talk about will become extremely irrelevant very quickly.

Think DIE. That stands for: Defense, Israel & Energy - the war super lobby. Many will protest and fault the Defense & Energy industries and their lobbies, but few dare to confront the brains of that tripartite consortium of selfish interests: Israel...the "I" in the DIE acronym.

Defense & Energy are multinational in nature and Israel is a foreign state....incredibly, these 3 lobbies, not the American public, are determining and formulating American policy with respect to the Middle East and Central Asia.

IMO, the American Founders would be stupefied to witness this.

By: brrrrk on 10/18/12 at 10:41

In Robert Draper's book, "Do Not Ask What Good We Do: Inside the U.S. House of Representatives" Draper wrote that during a four hour, "invitation only" meeting with GOP Minister of Propaganda, Frank Luntz, Senior GOP Congressmen plotted to undermine and destroy America's Economy.

The Guest List:
Frank Luntz
Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI)
Rep. Eric Cantor (R-VA)
Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R-CA),
Rep. Pete Sessions (R-TX),
Rep. Jeb Hensarling (R-TX),
Rep. Pete Hoekstra (R-MI)
Rep. Dan Lungren (R-CA),
Sen. Jim DeMint (SC-R),
Sen. Jon Kyl (AZ-R),
Sen. Tom Coburn (OK-R),
Sen. John Ensign (NV-R) and
Sen. Bob Corker (TN-R).

By: brrrrk on 10/18/12 at 10:46

Loner said

"One more thing, Ummm...As for getting the money out of politics, I believe that would be Mission Impossible....so, I leave the really hopeless pursuits to the more idealistic."

It will only happen if people are made aware of the influence.... and believe me, there are people in this country who have no idea. So, do like I have and buy yourself one of these guys and start stamping away....

https://stampstampede.org/shop/

By: Loner on 10/18/12 at 10:47

Thanks, I love that tune, too, Judy...I once played a sax part to that tune, when I performed with "The Loners"....actually, I like Willie Nelson's version too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0lpss9MZEc&feature=related

By: bfra on 10/18/12 at 10:50

Judyboodo - Your 10:35 comment is so true! Karl doesn't care about Nashville except to further his own career. The sooner (if ever) the taxpayers realize that fact, the better off we will be.

By: Ummm... on 10/18/12 at 10:52

The founders would be stupefied, indeed, and with many other sights also. Unfortunately, getting the money out of politics and getting Israel's influence out of Washington seem equally impossible to me. And, as far back as Eisenhower's farewell address, the "military-industrial complex" has been identified as a villainous force in our government, yet its power continues unabated. I applaud your "think globally, act locally" axiom, Loner, but I think you have to ask yourself how much influence you're exerting on the readers of the Jerusalem Post now that you can no longer participate in the dialogue. When rigid adherence to your ideals causes you to lose your ability to promote them, what have you gained? Moderation seems to be a virtue you have yet to recognize- it might advance your ideals more effectively than extremist rhetoric ever could.

By: Loner on 10/18/12 at 10:58

Thanks for schlepping that bit of muck in here, Brrrrk....a list of the usual suspects, for sure....and Corker is running virtually unopposed...Democracy Lite....that's what we got....not the full-strength stuff...not the grade that we export at sword-point.

Judy...you got my juices flowing...I whipped out a "D" penny whistle and jammed on "City of New Orleans"....it's in D major....that is one beautiful piece of music, IMO, the penny whistle might work as a complement to that wonderful harmonica part. I may have to dust off the tenor sax today...time to get my chops back in shape....the whistle is portable, durable and cheap, but it has its limits, for sure.