Up for Debate: Looking over a fiscal cliff

Monday, December 31, 2012 at 2:17am

What are your thoughts, predictions, musings and gripes on the current "fiscal cliff" negotiations?

Filed under: City Voices
Tagged: Up for Debate

98 Comments on this post:

By: BenDover on 12/31/12 at 5:13

I think Obama is aiming at going over the 'cliff' as he needs an excuse for the continuing economic malaise of his policies and he thinks this will let him hang it all around the necks of the Republicans for another 4 years.

By: Ask01 on 12/31/12 at 5:55

If the Republicans allow the nation to go over the 'fiscal cliff,' they will bear the entire brunt of the national wrath.

Right or wrong, they have perpetuated the image of, and branded themselves as, protecters of the idle, lazy rich at the expense of the productive working classes.

The fact they are refusing to allow tax increases on the rich and insisting on reducing or abolishing programs benifiting the elderly, the young, and those left unemployed by poor business management and greedy corporations is not lost on the vanishing middle class, an aging population, and expanding pool of angry unemployed.

The 'fiscal cliff' will be a milestone in American political history, as this generation witnesses what I believe will be the minimalization of a major political party.

By: BenDover on 12/31/12 at 6:21

The problem is that government won't cut spending. The evil rich will modify their behavior to best handle any tax increase so increasing taxes on them is just going to have the unintended consequence of dampened economic activity due to people focusing on tax avoidance rather than growth.

Refusal to cut spending and government expenditure as a % of gdp is what is at issue if you want to solve the fiscal crisis.

By: yogiman on 12/31/12 at 7:56

Be prepared. I see where Obama's primary goal is gun control. If he get's that one pulled off you can say good by USA, he will issue his constitution.

By: Kosh III on 12/31/12 at 8:05

I'm all in favor of cutting spending; the war department should be cut in half--at least.
Shut down our Empire. Close our bases in Europe, S. Korea, Japan, Latin America and elsewhere. Why are we the defender of Germany? They can defend themselves.
Non-intervention should be our foreign policy.

We can also cut out the massive welfare to rich corporations. We give billions to Boeing, yet Boeing has not paid federal income taxes since 2001. If "capitalist" corporations can't make it without taxpayer welfare, they can change their business or go out of business. We have too many "too big to fail" corporations that are rolling in money yet still sucking at the government teat.

Extend Medicare to all citizens. Single-payer is the most efficient, COST-EFFECTIVE health care system.

By: Kosh III on 12/31/12 at 8:09

Most of Congress doesn't care about the effects, certainly not our Senators. The average annual income of Congress members is 850 thousand. They won't be adversely affected so all they care about is their reelection and keeping their power.

By: Rasputin72 on 12/31/12 at 8:21

This is just the first of one fiscal cliff after another. As long as the 51.6% of the people who voted for Barack Hussein Obama find out that going over the fiscal cliff gets into their pockets and their free stuff one should feel some vindication.

By the way I had something passed on to me that seems hard to believe.

COUNTRY LIVING is supposedly a magazine with a 95.99% white readership.

EBONY/JET is supposedly a magazine with a 97.99% black readership.

I am told that both magazines in the same time frame did a survey on WHAT PEOPLE FEAR MOST?

COUNTRY LIVING magazine purportedly had these three top answers.
1. Nuclear war/terrorist attack on the U.S.
2. Child or spouse dying
3.Terminal illiness

EBONY/JET had these three answers
1. Ghosts
2. Dogs
3. Registered Mail

I do not read either of these magazines but I have heard of them and know that both have been around for lots of years. I question the validity of this information and wonder if one of you who are famiiar with these magazines could confirm or refute these surveys.

I suspect that this information is one of those pieces of information that is bogus.

By: Ask01 on 12/31/12 at 8:21

Ben, while I admit you make a valid point, the fact forever remains, the "evil rich," (a phrase I really like, by the way,) along with the Republican Party WILL be demonized if the nation goes over the 'cliff.'

Saddest of all, many supposedly middle class, blindly following Republican ideology, chanting the mantra, are the ones most dependent upon, or likely in the future to need, the Democrat sponsored programs they so villify.

All that is needed to politically convert a Republican is for them to be on the receiving end of Republican "Compassionate Conservatism."

I can almost gaurantee if any of these folks so rabidly cursing the unemployed lost their situation, they would be the first in line for the government dole, screaming the loudest for federal intervention.

Sorry for the rant. I tend to ramble at times.

Bottom line, if we go over the cliff, Republicans and the rich will bear the brunt of the working class backlash.

By: Loner on 12/31/12 at 8:41

Good morning, Nashville>

What are your thoughts, predictions, musings and gripes on the current "fiscal cliff" negotiations?

People love a crisis, we saw that with the Y2-K panic. We saw it again this year with the Mayan End Times prophecy and now we face the "Fiscal Cliff". The media whip the gullible masses into these periodic episodes of mass hysteria....it's good for their ratings and thus it's good for their bottom lines....fear sells.

I predict that the "cliff' will be more of a speed bump, than a precipice. After all a 10% reduction in spending and a 10% increase in taxation is Austerity Lite....it's a lot less pain & sacrifice than what the EU has been demanding of Greece, for example.

My gripe is that the tax "increases" are not tax hikes...we are simply returning to the tax rates that were in effect when Bill Clinton was president and the nation was in the black for two years...it's hard to believe it, but the federal budget was actually balanced, twice, under Bil Clinton.

Junior Bush & Dick Cheney slashed the tax rates across the board, telling us that this would bring in more revenue, not less....then they started two very expensive elective wars...mostly funded off-budget, using accounting gimmicks and tricks. The spendthrift wars dragged on for years...Afghanistan is still a combat zone and both Iraq and Afghanistan continue to drain the US Treasury in the form of massive foreign aid deals. And now, it looks like Uncle Sam is going to have to pull Israel's fat out of the fire once again....Iran is in the cross-hairs.

The merry-go-round of low taxation has come to a stop...it's time to pay for another ride or get off the carousel.....time's up.

The Super-Committee that was supposed to avert the "cliff" was doomed to begin with...of course, they failed miserably. The nation's economic health was put on Cruise Control; while the lawmakers scrambled for cover, hoping that they would escape any personal blame for the impending, preventable "accident".

There is no mystery here....Congress is unable to act, because Congress is on the take to the special interests that fund the political campaigns of the lawmakers. This "fiasco" is the result of massive corruption in Washington, DC.....enjoy!

By: Rasputin72 on 12/31/12 at 8:47

LONER.....Not even a die-hard Republican like me can find any firm ground upon which to debate your 7:41 post.

By: Loner on 12/31/12 at 8:57

Thank you, Rasp...I believe that my layman's "analysis" is more accurate than many of the current explanations and narratives floating about these days.

Anyone who has ever taken a kid to a carnival, fair or amusement park knows what I mean about getting the child off the ride once it comes to a stop....kids often start bawling and refuse to get off the ride, when the time comes. Is the nation is behaving like a spoiled rotten 6-year old? Maybe so.

By: Loner on 12/31/12 at 9:08

Not to change the subject too much, but I had a moving experience yesterday, in our UU church.

The son-in-law of a couple who are members of our congregation came to our service, along with his wife and other family members. He is an Afghanistan war combat vet who suffered severe burns...his face is a horrific sight.

George Bush and Dick Cheney should have to look at that man's face every time they look in the mirror....those two chicken-hawks should be tried for war crimes....for soldiers who are disfigured like that, the war will never end....and for what? When the US finally leaves Afghanistan, the place will revert to its old murderous ways....only with an increased general hatred of the United States of America.

Holy Wars Suck....I'll be manning the signage again today...with renewed determination.

By: Loner on 12/31/12 at 9:36

Rasp, re: Your 7:21 post: I Googled it and and found a site that debunks and exposes this racist slur...here it is:

http://www.snopes.com/racial/humor/fearmost.asp

You were correct to assume that the survey was bogus....still, you dragged it in here....now please drag it out, it's stinking up the place, thanks.

By: Loner on 12/31/12 at 9:48

Personally, I liked the nice tax refunds that I have been getting, since 2000. I was able to stash a lot of that cash into a special savings account...if I find that I owe more than I've paid in at the end of this year, I'll withdraw cash from that account to pay whatever is due....I'm sure that many others did as I did, so we do not fear the return to realistic taxation levels....but I'm only human, I do not welcome the idea that my tax returns may be greatly reduced.

I am glad that I did not "blow" the yearly tax return windfall...but, I was thinking about buying a new vehicle with that cash....that idea is now on hold. When I see my accountant to do my 2012 taxes, I'll ask him for advice on how to prevent myself from over-paying my fair share in 2013 and beyond.

I plan to file early this year...there could be stampede.

By: Loner on 12/31/12 at 9:53

Please pardon my typos, missing articles, repeated words, missing words and homophone errors....and grammatical SNAFU....or syntactical FUBAR....I need more cappuccino?

By: Rasputin72 on 12/31/12 at 10:01

LONER.........It had a "culture" about it that just looked like contemporary racism.

By: Loner on 12/31/12 at 10:05

"Contemporary racism"...sounds like an oxymoron, Rasp...do not ingest anything that has a "culture" about it...pathogens abound in such cultures....of course, you already are aware of that....right?

By: budlight on 12/31/12 at 10:08

By: Loner on 12/31/12 at 8:08
Not to change the subject too much, but I had a moving experience yesterday, in our UU church.

The son-in-law of a couple who are members of our congregation came to our service, along with his wife and other family members. He is an Afghanistan war combat vet who suffered severe burns...his face is a horrific sight.

Loner, you probably never watched the soap All My Children, but there was an actual burned vet on that show. Over a period of time, he had skin graffs and procedures to repair the damage. It turned out well for him. There are many ways to heal and repair those wounds.

Many of the men and women who have served in the "Volunteer" military service do not have nearly the same hate towards our past president(s) and country as you and others do. They volunteered for service to their country and for that you should be honoring them. NOT looking at their wounds and saying "his face is a horrific sight".

Life is tough and may be worse. Our country is filled with hate towards the wealthy for no good reason. It is just jealousy and greed that makes people jealous of what others have. I do not feel envy for those who are better off than I am. I feel hope for what can be.

By: yogiman on 12/31/12 at 10:25

budlight,

The wealthy get their wealth in one of two ways; they inherit it or they work their a$$es of to earn it. So many who didn't inherit it and are too damn lazy to work for it wind up to be the biggest grippers on those that have it.

Which category are those on this site?

By: budlight on 12/31/12 at 10:25

Loner said ".Afghanistan is still a combat zone and both Iraq and Afghanistan continue to drain the US Treasury in the form of massive foreign aid deals. And now, it looks like Uncle Sam is going to have to pull Israel's fat out of the fire once again....Iran is in the cross-hairs."

"still a combat zone" because Obama said he would end it and HAS NOT DONE SO. And he has divided our country racially far worse than it ever was. There are more jealous people lamenting what they don't have and envying what hard working Americans have than ever before. The class warfare was wrought upon us by the king of greed, Obama. He is filthy rich now that he's president. He should have taken the job for free to practice what he preaches.

By: budlight on 12/31/12 at 10:31

Yogi, I just finished helping one of my neighbors who had a sister die in east TN. She is leaving one of her brothers a $400,000 piece of property. SHE PAID FOR IT. It is her right to leave it to whomever she chooses.

If someone inherits wealth, it does not make them lazy; it makes them fortunate. My mom left each of us about $80,000. That is a mere pittance compared to most inheritances. But we were blessed with it. She was a cotton mill worker; a drug store clerk and a department store clerk who managed her hourly wage well.

She did not indulge her children in the "toys" that most parents indulge them in today. They buy everything they can and even charge a lot. No wonder they are not "building wealth". Everyone should have to study Financial Peace University by Dave Ramsey;; it will teach them how to build wealth.

Hey Happy New Year. Hope you have a good one. I'm getting my taxes ready; we're gonna owe, owe, owe! But it will be my own fault for not planning better in 2012 for the tax return.

By: Captain Nemo on 12/31/12 at 10:42

Let s go over the cliff and see who is right.

Thanks for the link Loner. What would expect from a counterfeit, but bogus crap.

By: Captain Nemo on 12/31/12 at 10:43

The troll is looking to get her hands on $400,000.

By: yogiman on 12/31/12 at 10:56

Taxes are taxes, budlight.

It doesn't matter whether you pay them by monthly payment (deductions) or when you file for the year. I use my money as long as I can to make a little money with it and pay my taxes on the last day it's required before paying interest on it. Ain't that interesting; if you don't pay your taxes on time, you pay the government interest for using your own damn money too late.

And I don't believe we should be supporting the world with our money. That's our money, not Uncle Sam's. When did congress ask us if it was okay to give our money to other nations; especially the ones that hate us?

By: Rasputin72 on 12/31/12 at 10:59

LONER..........I have been aware for sometime that you did not differentiate 1954 racism fromracism today. There has been a huge change in just what defines racism. Todays racism takes into consideration "culture".

Diversity is todays social byword in the USA and is best described as "mogrelism"

I would bet that historians 150 years from now will have a lot to say about culture and diversity and the role these words had to do with the demise and collapse of the USA.

By: Rasputin72 on 12/31/12 at 11:00

mongrelism

By: parnell3rd on 12/31/12 at 11:01

It was a good conversation until capt numbnuts opened his piehole.

By: parnell3rd on 12/31/12 at 11:04

Fiscal cliff brought to us by politicians we elected! Republican and Democrat!

By: BenDover on 12/31/12 at 11:06

If they don't at least get the AMT fix in it's going to be Uuuuugggggllllyyy....

By: slacker on 12/31/12 at 11:21

They called Hillary & Bill in, for their take on it.....
http://wallstreetjackass.typepad.com/raptureready/2009/03/recess-at-the-asylum.html

By: Captain Nemo on 12/31/12 at 11:24

If not for Mongrelism(sic) you would not be here Raspy old boy.

By: Captain Nemo on 12/31/12 at 11:29

Once again p3’s wit is non-existence. When the Republican pushes us over the cliff, I await to here your amusing words as you’re failing.

By: Eye Nose & Now ... on 12/31/12 at 11:43

Obama save us from world end 10 day ago so no problemn save us from fiscal
cliff. But I think bigger problem for us is yogi man and bud lite who on this site
and seems only 2 who don't believe in Obama If we just ignores them and dont
replys to them may be they go away and watches Fox news instead of always
grummeling about Obama. yogi man is worst as he always drag up fact Obama
was born in Kenya, he Musslim, and he citizn of Indochina insteads of u.S. He make
us Believers always have tell white lie to conttradick him and white lie in this case
ok as it come under situattional ethnics, or some thing like that but if you likes me
you gets tired of it and may be they both go back watch Fox as Fox always show
proof of what they say but we dont wants hear it as Obama better than republicn
who really mess up if they get back in ofice with their starve old folks, lie about
every thing and best we have NY ressolution to ignore yogi and bud in 2,013
and that keep us from them drive us crazy every day with their post on city P

By: BenDover on 12/31/12 at 11:54

The CBO estimates that the 'millionaire' tax of people with incomes over $250,000 a year will result in $50B a year in new revenues. They are not factoring in the number of married two earner professional households what will just opt out and then play defense rather than offense with the family budget. Rates will go up... revenues will go down because it's this disposable income upon which the economy really depends. They'll claim victory none the less and since the missed revenues will fall into the 'what might have been' category the dupes who keep electing the class-warfare party will never be the wiser that their cure is the cause.

On the flip-side the Dems are holding out for spending increases because they have no intention whatsoever to make any real cuts and they know forcing the country over the 'cliff' will be blamed on Republicans.

It's a lose lose for the R's... Obama's election was a referendum on the tax increase so they should have just caved early and regrouped on economic reform for the next election cycle.

By: Eye Nose & Now ... on 12/31/12 at 11:56

Corection: I wants corect speling as I dont want my post appear ignant ---
corect speling is: situational ethics --- I call my pastur and he spell it out for
me then he talk and he explains how situational ethics got started -- He say
teenage couple on date (way backs when it be boy and girl only as advantages of same-sex marriage not even thought of then) and Billy Joe wants
make love and Susie Lou refuse and he explain situational ethics and how
bad thing happen if she refuse and she say what bad thing? and BJ he say I
go home and never evers go to church again and then I go to Hell but if we
makes love I keeps go to church be sure to go to Heaven so my futue in your hands
So Susie Lou say--- yes I agree that is good---so they gits it on and very next day phone ring and Susie Lou on other end and she
say---- Billy Joe any time you think about skip church you be sure let me know---
Sence then situational ethnics spread to all situattions especially politic but
became rampant with teenagers in 1st 48 hours way back then

By: budlight on 12/31/12 at 11:59

EW
By: parnell3rd on 12/31/12 at 10:01
It was a good conversation until capt numbnuts opened his piehole.

Panell, now you know why I refer to him as a "nemroid" - because he is a pain in the butt-to-ski!

slacker on 12/31/12 at 10:21
They called Hillary & Bill in, for their take on it.....
http://wallstreetjackass.typepad.com/raptureready/2009/03/recess-at-the-asylum.html

Hillary has a blood clot as the result of a head injury she sustained when she fell during a bout with the flu while she was at home alone. Probably a bit light headed from the flu, but my guess is she's not gonna be able to divert the fiscal cliff or have any input. Bill, on the other hand will say something - anything - as long as he is in front of a camera.

Eye, ear nose & butt wrote: "best we have NY ressolution to ignore yogi and bud in 2,013
and that keep us from them drive us crazy every day with their post on city P"

Hey butthead eye, ear, nose get a dictionary, a spell check and a life. And if I drive you crazy, it's cause you have such a short distance to get there. You can't even speak English, let alone write it. But then, you are bfra in drag, probably, or Capt. Nemroid, or one of the crazy 6 libtards on this site.

OK, your turn. And the funny part is that no matter how many time the libtard 6 says they will ignore Yogi and others, they always give in and respond or post to us. That's the amusing part of it. Gives me a great big old belly laugh. And yes, I said it first. I have a great, big old belly. At least I don't take myself as seriously as the 6 libtards take themselves.

They think they are the brains of CP and the leaders. LOL Hope you all have a Happy New Year. Be sure to check on the drunk driving road blocks cause you're all a bunch of drinkers & drivers. I know you are! You're all too smug not to be.

By: Eye Nose & Now ... on 12/31/12 at 12:00

I have analeyes all who post on City P but if there be others who are not Believers
besides yogi and bud lite and I misses them we also needs ignore them all so in 2,013

By: yogiman on 12/31/12 at 12:32

It wouldn't hurt if you went back to school, ENN, and learned what our founders meant when they wrote the Constitution.

To bring you up a little bit on the subject, ENN, your man Barry also agreed both parent must be American citizens to be a natural born citizen. How? When he brought the subject up again John McCain and signed the conclusion the the Senate agreed on when McCain was questioned.

So if he was sure a British subject was eligible for that office, why did he agree with the Senate?

Better yet, why hasn't he shown us just who in the hell he is?

By: Eye Nose & Now ... on 12/31/12 at 12:41

yogiman he done postes again but I ignores him You needs do same

By: yogiman on 12/31/12 at 3:49

Thanks for ignoring me with your ignorance, ENN. Now convince your fellow posters how ignorant they are and I can give the others evidence.

And by the way, stay sober tonight or no one will be able to understand what you're "trying to say" tomorrow.

By: yogiman on 12/31/12 at 3:51

I forgot to ask, ENN, what college did you go to? Was English your major or did you wait until you went to graduate school to major in English?

By: dargent7 on 12/31/12 at 4:41

E N & Now speaks like native American Indian. I know what he's saying.
Yogiman speak with forked tongue. Pale face congenital liar.
Further more, full of buffalo shit.

His "why won't he show us who he is" constant yammering is tired, old, and a waste.
If a Kenyan born in a hut in Rwanda can falsify all H.S. thru college transcripts, SS#'s, addresses, affiliations, teaching credintials, Professorships, a J.D. degree from Harvard, a Illinois State Senate seat, and run for USA President and WIN... TWICE, ....this is the type of guy I want in the W.H.
He'd be in the same co. as JFK, LBJ, Ronnie Reagan, G HW Bush, G W Bush,and B Clinton.
So, in reality, what's the difference.
To ALL: a Happy New Year!

By: dargent7 on 12/31/12 at 4:44

s/h/b: "What's the F****'in difference?"

By: Rasputin72 on 12/31/12 at 4:55

The Republican house has to be commended for voting the way they promised. This plays the way the socialist doctrine works. Everybody gets hurt except the 47% who do pay anything anyway.

The 47% have a mild surprise coming. They are going to see some of their freebies cut.

The top 2% will be hurt the most but they should be the most financially capable of handling it.

The working middle class who pushed Obama over the top will feel the most pain.

The AMT was designed to kick the middle class in the ass.

By: bfra on 12/31/12 at 6:08

d7 - ENN makes a heck of a lot more sense than alpha troll & the other trolls. Raspy, he is just afraid his allowance will be cut by what ever woman he is mooching off of at the present.

By: yogiman on 12/31/12 at 6:11

You're exposing your ignorance, dargent7. You're attitude 'to hell with the Constitution' indicates you didn't learn much in school.

You express Obama's so called credentials. When did you see them? If they exist, why does he refuse to show them? Why can't a hospital be found that acknowledges being his birth place? Don't you think they would welcome the free publicity? Don't you think a doctor would love to be seen as the one who 'delivered' him?

Anyway, stay sober tonight. I hope you have a great New Year... even with your political ignorance.

By: budlight on 12/31/12 at 6:22

bfra, I hope you and yours feel the pinch. Don't drive drunk like you usually do. It's not worth it.

HAPPY NEW YEAR.

By: Rasputin72 on 12/31/12 at 6:57

The 51.6% of Americans who put Obama over the top have a lottery mentality.

I wish for them a "good number".

For the 49.4% who voted for Romney, you don"t need my best wishes.You people are up for whatever challenge awaits you. Making your own luck has been a part of your culture since childhood.

May 2013 smile on every single working American family.

By: Captain Nemo on 12/31/12 at 7:58

Always the whiner, Rasputin shows his classic attitude as a loser.

The we have someone with a boozers name (budlight) tell bfra not to drive drunk.

By: bfra on 12/31/12 at 8:11

Nemo - Bud seem to know a lot about drunk driving, maybe she is trying to pay her or hubby's fines with her welfare check.:-)