Up for Debate: Moving forward after Newtown

Monday, December 17, 2012 at 1:31am

How should the nation move forward after the Newtown killings? How should the nation's laws regarding firearms be affected? What do you hope comes out of such a tragic loss of lives?

Filed under: City Voices
Tagged: Up for Debate

251 Comments on this post:

By: Ask01 on 12/17/12 at 4:51

Overzealous draconian laws regarding gun ownership would only punish law abiding citizens rights to own firearms.

Criminals will, as they always have, find ways to obtain weapons regardless the law or penalties.

Likewise, the mentally ill determined to inflict pain and cause mayhem will only resort to other avenues to achieve their ends.

However, having said that, the incidence of violence involving weapons being turned on innocent victims in public settings reach a new low last Friday, December 14th, when a guman took so many young lives.

Parents, mothers in particular, have witnessed what has to be one of their worst nightmares, children attacked in a place they should have been safe.

There will be a groundswell of support for something, anything, to be done in the wake of this tragedy. Rather than allowing the extremists on either side to guide the way and spew their extremists rhetoric, those in the middle need to make certain calmer heads prevail.

I don't know of anyone who has a need to fight their way from doorstep to car, and return fire daily during their commute to and from work, and I don't read daily of citizens having to provide cover fire while they and their families make the perilous journey from car to whatever business they patronize.

However, these people, paranoid as they may be have the right, so long as they are not otherwise barred for a criminal past, to own, possess and bear arms.

I don't begrudge them this right.

There must be, on the other hand, some reasonable action must taken to ensure weapons are not easily and readily obtainable by those who seek to do harm such as we saw last Friday.

By: yogiman on 12/17/12 at 6:07

Well, we agree on one thing, Ask01. Yes, this was a devastating affair and the lives of many, other than just the parents, will be affected for decades to come.

But no laws issued to control guns will ever stop criminals from getting them. They never have, and never will.

I'll repeat the question: What if one of those teachers in that school had had a gun? That young man could have been stopped before he murdered so many of those children.

By: Loner on 12/17/12 at 7:30

Good morning, Nashville.

How should the nation move forward after the Newtown killings? A tipping point has been reached, now is the time for the non-gun-nuts to band together and demand action that benefits the general public, not the gun manufacturers and the gun nuts.

How should the nation's laws regarding firearms be affected? Hopefully, some common sense will now prevail.

What do you hope comes out of such a tragic loss of lives? The end of the NRA's reign of terror. Remember, NRA = Nuts, Rednecks & A-holes....those dogs have had their day; it's time to take back the country.

By: Loner on 12/17/12 at 7:33

There is something fundamentally goofy about a nation that considers driving a car an earned privilege....but owning a gun is considered a basic right.

By: Loner on 12/17/12 at 7:54

Instead of making the nation's shopping malls, movie theaters and schools "secured compounds", we ought to dis-arm the nut-jobs.

Anybody who maintains an arsenal of assault-type firearms and a cache of ammo is obviously insecure and probably paranoid....let's start the gun clean-up with the thousands of heavily-armed, nut-job survivalists...these folks are human time bombs and these whack-jobs do not always secure their weaponry...such weapons are often stolen and then fall into the hands of criminals and mass-murderers, as happened in Oregon and Connecticut recently.

The tragedy at Sandy Hook cannot be the price of freedom....the price is not right....things must change....now!

By: yogiman on 12/17/12 at 7:59

Can you come up with a law that will prevent a criminal from getting gun, Loner? Didn't think so.

As I've said before, this isn't the America I grew up in. What kind of nation has this become when you need armed guards in elementary schools for crying out loud?

Considering the massacre of Virginia Tech not long ago; Many of those students who weren't allowed to carry a gun were well trained firearm user veterans. So tell me, Loner, as a veteran, if you had been in Va. Tech., wouldn't you have liked to have a gun? Wouldn't you like to have a gun anytime you're being attached? I sure would. But I guess that makes me a damn fool, huh?

Sad to say, armed security guard is one of the fastest growing positions in American today.

By: Captain Nemo on 12/17/12 at 8:02

The twenty year old was not a criminal to say, but a mentally ill individual and there lies the problem of this heinous act. Stricter gun laws are only part of the answer. There needs to be more money to help in the aid of these individuals. In this incidence, mental sickness is the cause of the death of this little angels and their mentors.

As for gun laws, I don’t see where any would have stop this person from doing what he did. Never the less there needs to be better laws for what kind of guns can be sold and better laws to enforce this. Gun shows need to have the same laws and gun dealers have. Assault weapons should only be use by the military and law enforcements.

By: yogiman on 12/17/12 at 8:07

Loner,

The best security unit they had when I was in school was a wood paddle. Some with holes drilled in them. Those teachers were really cruel, weren't they?

And when you was sent to the principal's office, he usually used a leather strap. And back then you didn't want them to report you to your parents. You got a worse whipping at home because your parents didn't want you to embarrass their family's name.

By: Loner on 12/17/12 at 8:08

Here is a revealing article....the gunman's mom was a "prepper"...preparing for an economic collapse and anarchy.

Source:

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/mother-of-sandy-hook-gunman-adam-lanza-was-a-gun-obsessive-living-in-fear-of-societys-collapse-16251468.html

Snippets:

The mother of Sandy Hook gunman Adam Lanza who slaughtered 20 US schoolchildren and seven adults was a gun-hoarding survivalist who was stockpiling weapons in preparation for an economic collapse, it has emerged.

Nancy Lanza (52) had five registered firearms, had begun stockpiling food and taught Adam how to shoot. He is believed to have used three of her guns — a Bushmaster .223-calibre, and two handguns, a Glock 10 mm and a Sig Sauer 9mm — in the school massacre after he shot her dead in bed.

A law enforcement official said Lanza — said to be addicted to violent video games — had “lots of ammo” on him when he died, enough to carry out significant additional carnage. (end snippets)

This nutty mother knew her kid was nuts, but she taught him how to use assault weapons....incredible.

By: budlight on 12/17/12 at 8:18

Captain Nemo on 12/17/12 at 8:02
The twenty year old was not a criminal to say, but a mentally ill individual and there lies the problem of this heinous act. Stricter gun laws are only part of the answer. There needs to be more money to help in the aid of these individuals. In this incidence, mental sickness is the cause of the death of this little angels and their mentors

Nemo, he was from a "well to do" family. Well to do meaning he had the money available to get the help. How is more money going to help?

Loner, you were asked by Yogi: ": yogiman on 12/17/12 at 7:59
Can you come up with a law that will prevent a criminal from getting gun, Loner?"

I am repeating the question: How do you prevent a criminal from getting guns?

GUNS are not the problem. PEOPLE are the problem. If you take away every gun in the country, PEOPLE will find other ways to kill - yes even mass killings. Poison, knives, bombs (home made or other), rope or wire to strangle people and so on. So the question of the day is:

How do we build a society that no longer wants to harm others? Obviously no one is focused on this question or a solution.

By: govskeptic on 12/17/12 at 8:21

The only handgun he used in these shootings was the rifle, except for himself.
One report is that all victims were shot at least twice with some several more
than that, hence the reason all were killed. Loner has it right at the 8:08 posting.
Lots of problems going on here, as there are in most of these school instances.
Large ammo magazines for a semi-automatic rifle needs to be banned.

By: govskeptic on 12/17/12 at 8:22

Correction: Only gun used in the shootings was rifle.

By: BigPapa on 12/17/12 at 8:23

You can't prevent stuff like this as long as we live in a free society. Sure we could become a police state where we turn anyone acting a bit weird over the government authorities and we give up all fire arms, but I dont think we want to live in a place like that.

Something like this happens and all they girls start to squalk. All the stuff is just yapping out of pure emotion and free of rational talk.

Unless we are willing to pull crazy people out of society and put them in sanitariums we wont prevent stuff like this.

Unless we are willing to pull all guns out of society we wont prevent stuff like this.

I dont see us doing either. Just accept it and move on.

By: dargent7 on 12/17/12 at 8:27

I think it's telling President Obama has attended now 4 mass shooting aftermaths.
He's spends most of his time giving euologies at funerals than meeting with world leaders discussing nuclear disarmament, global warming, hunger, and world peace..
The mother had the 3 weapons UNLOCKED in the house. The punk stole his bros. ID and her car and the 3 guns. And people want to know, why? Who cares, why?
She knew her son had Aspergers Syndrome.
And when he snapped, she was the 1st to die.
There are no answers here. America has a love affair with guns and violence and no further laws will change that.
No sane person shoots 20 6 year olds multiple times at school.

By: yogiman on 12/17/12 at 8:27

Each person is an individual and there's no two alike, is there? Could that be why everything is so different everywhere in this world? Twins are similar visually only, not mentally or emotionally.

Families children are all different. I have a neighbor who had 3 boys. The oldest son "went by his father's side" and learned to farm. After his father passed away he took over the farm. His younger brother went to college and went to work in East Tennessee in an executive job. The youngest son went to prison. Why didn't they all stay on the farm and make their mother happy?

By: budlight on 12/17/12 at 8:29

This is from the BBC:

"Guns are deeply rooted within Swiss culture - but the gun crime rate is so low that statistics are not even kept.
The country has a population of six million, but there are estimated to be at least two million publicly-owned firearms, including about 600,000 automatic rifles and 500,000 pistols.
This is in a very large part due to Switzerland's unique system of national defence, developed over the centuries. Instead of a standing, full-time army, the country requires every man to undergo some form of military training for a few days or weeks a year throughout most of their lives.
Between the ages of 21 and 32 men serve as frontline troops. They are given an M-57 assault rifle and 24 rounds of ammunition which they are required to keep at home. Once discharged, men serve in the Swiss equivalent of the US National Guard, but still have to train occasionally and are given bolt rifles. Women do not have to own firearms, but are encouraged to."

Also in South Korea young people must be in the military for 2 years.

We need to get the rif-raf off the streets and into some type of disciplined training. We also need to understand that the GUNS are not the problem. Again, it is the PEOPLE.

This kid in Connecticut was probably on some type of ADD drug by the time he was 10. We keep filling our kids up with drugs and expecting them to be "normal". It is sad, but true.

And a DESIGNATED DEFENDER, unknown to anyone except Principal and Vice Principal at the school, who was trained and authorized to carry would help. It is logical that we need to have people who are trained to handle these situations in all our schools.

And statistically there are not many of these types of events annually. Unfortunately they happen and that is our focus. Some kid in TN just put a threat on his facebook and has already been arrested for Terrorist behavior. His life is now ruined. He is stupid. And you can't legislate "stupid".

By: budlight on 12/17/12 at 8:34

Unless we are willing to pull all guns out of society we wont prevent stuff like this. - by Big Papa

OK, Big Papa, how do you stop people from using other methods to kill? No one has given us an answer on this board for that question.

GUNS are not the problem. People are the problem.

By: Loner on 12/17/12 at 8:39

President Obama's address at Newtown, CT was very moving; he is a great president...I can't imagine junior Bush, Romney, McCain or any Republican acting as presidential as Obama did last night..we are fortunate to have this man as our POTUS.

Obama is now free to face the NRA...he has no re-election concerns and the general public is outraged about these mass killings....a tipping point has been reached....guns are on the way out....time to round them up, smelt them down and use the metal for the good of mankind.

By: BigPapa on 12/17/12 at 8:42

Wow Loner
I didnt see where he jumped in front of the bullets and they bounced off his chest a la Superman

How does his jock smell?

By: Captain Nemo on 12/17/12 at 8:49

Ask01 has words of wisdom;

I don't know of anyone who has a need to fight their way from doorstep to car, and return fire daily during their commute to and from work, and I don't read daily of citizens having to provide cover fire while they and their families make the perilous journey from car to whatever business they patronize.

The fear running this country, especially from the right, is grotesque. They are afraid to go to school or the neighborhood church, without there pocket warmers aka assault weapons. They walk in there little self-made hell daily. I think it maybe a form of mental illness, which haunts these fearful souls of theirs.

By: Loner on 12/17/12 at 8:54

Re: Papa's 8:42 comment: That's a crude comment, Papa..I thought that you were above something like that; obviously, I was wrong,...so, under what rubric do you place yourself....Nut....Redneck....or A-hole? Or all three?

By: Captain Nemo on 12/17/12 at 8:58

By: budlight on 12/17/12 at 8:18

Nemo, he was from a "well to do" family. Well to do meaning he had the money available to get the help. How is more money going to help?
......................................................................
This troll can only see what little light she gets from the cracks filtering betweens the planks of her bridge. Over all money for mental has been cut in this country for years and the need to institute this people has been swept under the rug for years.

Perhaps this sick soul of the "well to do mother" went into buying guns, instead of better care for her son.

By: BigPapa on 12/17/12 at 8:59

It was meant to be rude. You need a reality check. Obama is a politician, any politician can give a nice speech in the wake of a tragedy. Its- what- they- do. They live for stuff like that.

Stop jock sniffin

By: Captain Nemo on 12/17/12 at 9:05

budlight says;

We need to get the rif-raf off the streets and into some type of disciplined training.

He was from a well to do family, old gril. Make up your mind which is he?

By: bfra on 12/17/12 at 9:05

Big Papa - Obama didn't even HAVE to go there. He could have done a "fly over" like the Bush did so many times.

Loner = Big Papa has always been in the catagories you named. Maybe this inane comment is the first time you noticed..

By: Mike Burch on 12/17/12 at 9:05

Ask01,

Only criminals hold up banks and liquor stores. That doesn't keep us from legislating against robbery and trying to prevent robberies. The right of citizens to own weapons for defense has to be balanced against the right of other citizens not to be shot to pieces.

A few hours after I wrote my last article, saying that assault weapons would soon be in grade schools and other schools, the right-wing gun nuts made me seem like a prophet. What happened was entirely predictable. We have to decide whether we are going to have sane gun control laws, or whether the rights of adults supersede the rights of innocent children.

By: dargent7 on 12/17/12 at 9:06

Popps:
Obama's tears were authentic.
If you think not, stay in the heartless party known fondly and postumously as Republicans
Richard Nixon had two daughters. As did GW Bush.
Can you imagine either of those two shedding a tear in public, politican or not..
Raw emotion is based on the human heart, and neither had one.
Obama does.

By: gdiafante on 12/17/12 at 9:07

Guns are part of the problem. So is mental illness. We have to stop making it so easy for any nutjob to grab a small arsenal and commit mass murder.

First, there is no reason for anyone to have an assault weapon. Second, I would make it harder for anyone to purchase a gun and include a psych eval as part of the application process. If there are any red flags, you don't get a gun.

I would also include family history in this, since it's apparent that the mother, in Newtown's case, had the weapons. If anyone in your family has a history, you don't get a gun.

That's just a start, but I do not subscribe to the belief that we can do nothing. That's intellectually lazy.

By: Captain Nemo on 12/17/12 at 9:07

I agree gov. There needs to be ban large clips of ammo.

By: Mike Burch on 12/17/12 at 9:08

Loner,

I agree. The more progressive nations have proven that strong gun control can lead to less violence, without causing the demise of democracy. But the right-wingers are immune to facts and reason. We need to keep voting them out of office, until the GOP comes to its senses.

By: dargent7 on 12/17/12 at 9:10

" Only criminals hold up banks..."
Re-think that.
The biggests heists were from white collar, "respectible" executives, who looted America.s largest banks, savings and loans, and insurance cos.
No "guns" were used.

By: Captain Nemo on 12/17/12 at 9:10

BigPapa;

Even politicians can be moved by this tragedy, unless they are back by the NRA. Then I suppose they go into recover mode and protect their interest. Money!!

By: Captain Nemo on 12/17/12 at 9:13

By: dargent7 on 12/17/12 at 9:10
" Only criminals hold up banks..."
Re-think that.
The biggests heists were from white collar, "respectible" executives, who looted America.s largest banks, savings and loans, and insurance cos.
No "guns" were used.

They voted Republican, dargent.

By: gdiafante on 12/17/12 at 9:16

Are we really debating whether Obama could have been upset? WTF? Politicians aren't allowed to be parents now? Is there anyone here, with or without kids, who didn't get upset about this? Now, imaging having to address the public.

I wonder if we're capable of separating politics from anything anymore...

By: dargent7 on 12/17/12 at 9:18

BTW: This Friday is the 21st.
Some believe it will be the Mayan End.
People are quiting their jobs, selling their homes and cars.
Some will kill their children and themselves in a suicide pack.
It's going to be a nightmare here in the USA.
More idiotic violence fueled by guns.

By: Captain Nemo on 12/17/12 at 9:21

Good observation gdia. The fringe right and the right go into protection mode when their gun god flaws are shown. Take the spotlight of the warts and change the subject. QUICK!!

By: Captain Nemo on 12/17/12 at 9:23

d7-

The Mayans just ran out of stone. Boy is there going to a shock to those silly people.

By: budlight on 12/17/12 at 9:27

: Captain Nemo on 12/17/12 at 9:05
budlight says;

We need to get the rif-raf off the streets and into some type of disciplined training.

He was from a well to do family, old gril. Make up your mind which is he?

The Menendez Brothers were wealthy rif-raf! Don't have to be poor to be rif-raf! Street trash is street trash.

I do believe Obama was sincere with his tears. He has 2 daughters who have to be protected daily. So he understands the role of protector from a father's perspective. I don't think he has the same understanding from a Presidential perspective.

G, you are correct.

D7, that is "suicide Pact" not pack! Unless you are referring to a 6-pack of beer - LOL. Hey, D7 how's your all white neighborhood coming along? Have you ever noticed that you brag about that a lot - first with Sylvan Park and now with California - wherever you are? You need more diversity kiddo! LOL just kidding with you!

By: BenDover on 12/17/12 at 9:30

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2012/12/14/connecticut-school-shooting-gun-control/1770345/

By: bfra on 12/17/12 at 9:33

The children in Newtown will be going to another school, later this week. I think this is a good thing for the children. Especially those that had classes with, sat beside, was friends with or just knew the 20 little Angels that will be there no more. At such a young age, I hope they receive good counciling & lots of love so they can get thru this the best way possible.

By: BenDover on 12/17/12 at 9:33

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm

By: dargent7 on 12/17/12 at 9:37

Bud:
"It is what it is"....Albert Einstein.
Go take a walk around Sylvan Park.
99.99% white
There is one Hispanic gardner on 44th on Tues.
Los Gatos?
99.99% white.
Even all the dogs are Caucasian.

By: dargent7 on 12/17/12 at 9:44

bfra:
Great post at 9:33.
Not to get too philosophical, but all these children who are killed,worldwide, people say, "God called them home", or "They're in a better place", or "They are now with Jesus".
Personally, I just don't think so.
You think God "took them home"at age 6 and 7 knowing the grief it would cause the parents?
Why God/ Jesus allows these tragedies to occur is way beyond my pay scale.
I don't have the answers, but al,l "these little Angels", is somewhat naive'.

By: Captain Nemo on 12/17/12 at 9:45

bud

All riff raff needs to remain under the bridge, or seek mental help.

By: bfra on 12/17/12 at 9:46

d7 - You should have told bud what day that Hispanic gardner is there so she could drive by & admire his legs. Then she could have posted a long saga about it on the board.

Have a good day d7, always good to hear from the West Coast.

By: gdiafante on 12/17/12 at 9:47

It's how people rationalize it, darge. It's natural to think that a loved one is "in a better place". And honestly, the way the world is, they probably are in a better place, be it Heaven, Limbo, another hidden dimension...whatever.

By: bfra on 12/17/12 at 9:49

d7 - Thanks.

By: Captain Nemo on 12/17/12 at 9:49

BenDover the only ban on guns I seek are the assault weapons and the more than 10 round clips. You knee jerk reaction is typical of frightful paranoia people.

By: bfra on 12/17/12 at 9:50

gdiafante - If there is a better place, you better believe there are 20 new innocent Angels there now.

By: Captain Nemo on 12/17/12 at 9:53

I don’t think God or Jesus called them home. They died at the hands of an insane mind. I hope they are in a safe place now.