Up for Debate: Moving forward after Newtown

Monday, December 17, 2012 at 1:31am

How should the nation move forward after the Newtown killings? How should the nation's laws regarding firearms be affected? What do you hope comes out of such a tragic loss of lives?

Filed under: City Voices
Tagged: Up for Debate

251 Comments on this post:

By: Loner on 12/17/12 at 9:54

Papa's 8:42 & 8:59 comments are homophobic or racist.....take your pick.

Big Papa is a Big Hater...the veneer has been stripped away....the man is pure NRA: a Nut...a Redneck...and an A-hole.

And big time homophobe.

Big Papa still has the white muslin sheet & matching pointy hooded mask stashed in the closet...alongside the Stars & Bars?

By: bfra on 12/17/12 at 9:55

NOBODY but police & military has any sane reason the own an assault weapon, Ever see that movie with Donzel Washington when he took the Senators duck hunting. They whipped out their uzis and started rapid firing. 1 duck fell & Donzel said "shell shock". Makes about as much sense as private citizens owning assault weapons.

By: Captain Nemo on 12/17/12 at 9:56

Good point bfra

By: brrrrk on 12/17/12 at 9:58

The Second Most Powerful Gun Lobby Is in Newtown, Connecticut

http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/111148/three-miles-tragic-shooting-bastion-gun-rights#

Sometimes irony is sad.

By: bfra on 12/17/12 at 10:01

Loner - As a life member of NRA & I do own guns. Do not have & have no use or desire for an assault weapon, I can honestly say not all NRA members are anywhere near the mindset of people like Big Papa.

By: brrrrk on 12/17/12 at 10:06

bfra said

"Loner - As a life member of NRA & I do own guns. Do not have & have no use or desire for an assault weapon, I can honestly say not all NRA members are anywhere near the mindset of people like Big Papa."

Then it seems to me that it's people like you bfra, who should be standing up to the likes of Big Papa....

By: bfra on 12/17/12 at 10:06

IMO - NRA started going downhill when Charlton Heston aka Moses, Gun Lord, became president. He was a gun zealot!

By: Captain Nemo on 12/17/12 at 10:09

Thanks for the link brrrrk.

I consider if this was the reason for the shooters to choose this location?

By: bfra on 12/17/12 at 10:10

brrrrk - How is little ole me going to teach a gun nut like Big Papa new tricks? I can rant & rave, vote my opinion, sign petitions & voice my opinion, but gun nuts are a different breed than the people I associate with that own guns.

By: Loner on 12/17/12 at 10:13

Thank you, Brrrk, for the link on the Newtown-based gun lobby...the "shooting sports" people.

Once the kids have been laid to rest, the families of the victims should consider grabbing pitchforks, torches and nooses and heading straight for the headquarters of the National Shooting Sports Foundation...they should consider burning the firearms foundation down to the building's foundation....enough is enough....channel the rage!

By: Captain Nemo on 12/17/12 at 10:15

That is true bfra. I did a double take on Heston’s life and movies and came away in shock and troubled.

By: gdiafante on 12/17/12 at 10:17

Bfra's right. As long as the NRA is taking the stance of the Big Papa's of the world, they have the money so they have the voice.

The CT shooting may be the straw that broke the camel's back though...enough is enough. I don't subscribe to the theory that this is a natural byproduct of the second amendment. Assault weapons can, and have, been banned without violating the amendment. You can require certain qualifications for ownership that don't violate the amendment.

And, most importantly, you can advocate for stricter gun laws without wanting the 2nd amendment repealed. That's the ultimate straw man.

By: brrrrk on 12/17/12 at 10:19

Decline in gun deaths doubled since Australia destroyed 700,000 firearms

http://sydney.edu.au/news/84.html?newsstoryid=1502

Of course from the pro-gun position, you can't stop all the crazies, so why do anything..... after all, what's a 40% decline in guns deaths.

By: Captain Nemo on 12/17/12 at 10:20

I still think that the gun issue is only a part of this horror. There is still the lack of Mental Health Care that is being neglected in this country. Either we rush to remove all guns or we protect the gun god.

By: BenDover on 12/17/12 at 10:21

People who shoot up schools don't care about gun laws gd. It's only the sane law-abiding people who are affected by them.

By: brrrrk on 12/17/12 at 10:26

bfra said

"brrrrk - How is little ole me going to teach a gun nut like Big Papa new tricks? I can rant & rave, vote my opinion, sign petitions & voice my opinion, but gun nuts are a different breed than the people I associate with that own guns."

Sorry, but that's a cop out. If you truly believe that most members of the NRA are advocates of some type of sensible gun restrictions (and I believe that even the NRA's polls show this), then it's your responsibility to make your voice heard. Do you expect the NRA (and people like Big Papa) to listen to someone like me who wouldn't own a gun unless he had too... and even then would probably still refuse? No, if there's going to be change, it has to come from people like yourself.

By: gdiafante on 12/17/12 at 10:27

Like the mother, who owned multiple assault weapons, Ben? Let's ignore the issue and keep making it so convenient for the mentally ill. That's a good idea.

Now, this comes home for me becaused I used to live just 50 miles from Newtown. It's probably the last place in the country that you would need multiple assault weapons for self-defense. Actually, you wouldn't need that for self-defense in most areas. Ridiculous.

By: BigPapa on 12/17/12 at 10:27

Loner
Its just that your post was so inane.
You said no other person in the history of the earth could give a moving speech about children being shot-- give me a break. Im sure Obama was honest, but then I think anyone speaking would be. But again, it's what politicians do, give speeches.

Im not a member of the nra, I dont own a gun. I do however believe in personal responsibility. This guy was responsible for his actions. But then that's not a very good satisfying to a mob wanting revenge and answers to questions w/o answers.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 12/17/12 at 10:27

I have a coworker who is Aussie and he brought that up right away. There is no reason why anyone other than law enforcement needs an assault weapon. We need to strongly enforce the laws we have now (including enforcing them at gun shows) and we need to destigmatize mental health care and make it easier for people to get mental health care. Not all insurance covers it.

By: Captain Nemo on 12/17/12 at 10:29

There you go Ben, protecting the almighty gun. Not one word about spending money or any effort in prevention of mental illness. Not one word about how the shooter should have never gotten his hands on a gun, much less an Assault Rifle.

Ben you are just as guilty as the shooter, for defending the gun god.

By: gdiafante on 12/17/12 at 10:29

And Nemo is right about mental care. As news comes available, it's pretty obvious that there were warning signs for that kid. The sad part is that most of the problem is family members, that refuse to believe there's an underlying, severe psychosis.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 12/17/12 at 10:31

We need to face the fact that our society produces a bunch of "Armagedon" and "End of the World" religious crazies and we make gun ownership legal and without any strongly enforced laws. What do we expect will happen? If someone is a hoarder or a survivalist, that should be a warning sign, don't you think? And having a mentally unstable son living with her? Red flag, anyone?

By: BigPapa on 12/17/12 at 10:33

"Why God/ Jesus allows these tragedies to occur is way beyond my pay scale.
I don't have the answers, but al,l "these little Angels", is somewhat naive'."

Some what naive?? Down right delusional is more like it. Religion is just a coping mechanism people use to deal with stuff they can't or refuse to process. "opiate for the masses" comes to mind.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 12/17/12 at 10:34

"opiate for the masses" is correct. Sometimes I wonder if it's also the "bath salts for the masses" when it comes to the crazies.

By: BenDover on 12/17/12 at 10:34

I guess I'll get to the gun show when it comes in Nashville in January.

Need to stock up on high cap. clips for the Glock and maybe a Mini 14, some ammo, and a nice re-loader outfit before you guys f*ck up our gun rights, too.

By: Loner on 12/17/12 at 10:34

I'm tiring of the phrase, "Law-abiding gun owners"....as if such individuals are beyond reproach.

Law-abiding gun owners have been known to snap.

Law-abiding gun owners have been known to leave their guns unsecured; this leads to stolen weapons and accidental deaths.

Law-abiding gun owners are mortal; when they pass, their weapons sometimes fall into the wrong hands.

Law-abiding gun owners are not always well-trained gun owners; they make fatal mistakes.

Law-abiding gun owners, like the general population, are not universally sane & well-balanced.

One does not need to be a mental health professional to conclude that people who maintain arsenals of assault weapons and have lots of ammo stashed away are insecure individuals, suffering from some sort of anxiety....they are unbalanced.

And one does not need to be a social scientist to see that the gun industry and its lobbying efforts are creating this mass hysteria...and reaping huge profits from the madness.

This has to cease.

Owning a firearm ought to be an earned privilege, not a Constitutional right...the 2nd Amendment has to go....its original purpose was to enable a well-regulated militia; there was no standing army at the time. Today, we have a standing army, navy and air force....there is no need today for a "militia" of any sort.

"MIlitia" can be...and often is...a euphemism for a roving band of gunmen....we don't need no stinking militia here in the USA.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 12/17/12 at 10:35

But then fundamentalism is OK here, as long as they are Christian jihadists.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 12/17/12 at 10:35

See you in the news, Ben.

By: brrrrk on 12/17/12 at 10:36

Captain Nemo said

"I still think that the gun issue is only a part of this horror. There is still the lack of Mental Health Care that is being neglected in this country. Either we rush to remove all guns or we protect the gun god."

And who's going to pay for all this? Studies have shown overwhelmingly that in countries where there is a greater wealth inequality; a greater separation between the haves and have not's, there is a higher lever of violence, higher levels of domestic abuse, higher levels of drug use, higher levels of health issues, lower results in education, etc. etc. etc.. And right now we are leading almost all other countries in wealth inequality. We fix this, or we will be destroyed from within or taken over from the outside.

http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/

By: Blanketnazi2 on 12/17/12 at 10:36

Amen, Loner.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 12/17/12 at 10:37

Very true, brrrrk.

By: gdiafante on 12/17/12 at 10:40

Yeah, you better stockpile Ben, because the evidence is so overwhelmingly in favor of the 2nd amendment being repealed.

And you say you aren't a drama queen...lol

By: Eye Nose & Now ... on 12/17/12 at 10:40

I red all these City P posts and it seem only Yogiman and 1 or two others only ones
not like Obama and gun control. I thinkmYogiman and others just don't realizes
grate things Obama DO cause you not see them cause he do them behind the seen
just like rite now Obama be working on solve problem of guns He also been work
behind seen on problmn about that big thing whatever it be up in the air suppose
to hit and destroy us all Friday but come Sat you wait and see if we not safe an d
Obama not even brag about save us but if Bush still in ofice we ALL be anileated
on Fri Dec 21 & mighty dead on Sat

By: bfra on 12/17/12 at 10:42

brrrrk - You missed my point! I as 1 do all I can to help regulate control of assault weapons. I cannot control what gun nuts do, can you?

By: Captain Nemo on 12/17/12 at 10:43

When I get myself into a dangerous situation, I look for away out of it, peacefully. Having a gun I might think I was John Wayne and shoot my way out.

Guns only make a person more dangerous than they normally would be. This makes them dangerous to all life in gun shoot distance. I have guns of my own, but they are for the advent of someone at my home treating me.

We are not living in the old west

By: brrrrk on 12/17/12 at 10:45

Loner said

"Owning a firearm ought to be an earned privilege, not a Constitutional right...the 2nd Amendment has to go....its original purpose was to enable a well-regulated militia; there was no standing army at the time. Today, we have a standing army, navy and air force....there is no need today for a "militia" of any sort.

"MIlitia" can be...and often is...a euphemism for a roving band of gunmen....we don't need no stinking militia here in the USA."

I even when militia's were actually necessary in this country, each community militia trained and had an armory where all their weapons were kept..... the exception being the very rural areas where having a gun was absolutely necessary for survival.

By: Eye Nose & Now ... on 12/17/12 at 10:46

If Obama give 3 tirm instead of 2 we be better off and then he solve ALL
our problemns.

By: Captain Nemo on 12/17/12 at 10:46

By: BenDover on 12/17/12 at 10:34
I guess I'll get to the gun show when it comes in Nashville in January.

Need to stock up on high cap. clips for the Glock and maybe a Mini 14, some ammo, and a nice re-loader outfit before you guys f*ck up our gun rights, too.

Just as guilty as if you had shot the 20 children as the shooter, Ben.

By: gdiafante on 12/17/12 at 10:46

Ignore the troll

By: Loner on 12/17/12 at 10:47

Pick up some sand bags for your bunker while you are at it, Ben...we're coming...and we are gonna pry that gun out of your...well, you know the rest....Ben, you are too smart for this....you are not a Nut, Redneck or A-hole....are you?

The ongoing Gun-lobby-Congress-Gun-Industry's 3-way intercourse has screwed the entire nation....time for coitus interruptus....the perverted passion party is over....time for the sweethearts to say goodbye.

By: Captain Nemo on 12/17/12 at 10:50

You don't have to tell me g. It has to be bud's evil sister. LOL

By: BenDover on 12/17/12 at 10:51

Everything I listed, the high cap mags... the Mini 14... everything except the reloaders is on your sh*t list, gd.

By: brrrrk on 12/17/12 at 10:51

bfra said

"brrrrk - You missed my point! I as 1 do all I can to help regulate control of assault weapons. I cannot control what gun nuts do, can you?"

If you read my post again, you'll realize that I was never suggesting that you control anyone personally... but as a member of the NRA, you have an obligation to voice your opinion and try to change their culture. Again, you and people like you are the only ones that are going to change anything.

By: BenDover on 12/17/12 at 10:52

Yeah loner... I really anxious to be lectured by Obama and Holder about gun safety when they were shipping Automatic Weapons to the Mexican Drug Cartels.

By: Captain Nemo on 12/17/12 at 10:53

Loner, I’m sure that Ben has night vision and a year’s supply of food and ammo in his downtown apartment.

By: brrrrk on 12/17/12 at 10:53

Loner said

"Pick up some sand bags for your bunker while you are at it, Ben...we're coming...and we are gonna pry that gun out of your...well, you know the rest....Ben, you are too smart for this....you are not a Nut, Redneck or A-hole....are you?"

No, but he is a Libertarian.... and if they had their way we'd all have access to bazookas and nukes.

By: gdiafante on 12/17/12 at 10:54

Good Ben. Then you should stock up. That's what stupid people do.

By: brrrrk on 12/17/12 at 10:54

BenDover said

"Yeah loner... I really anxious to be lectured by Obama and Holder about gun safety when they were shipping Automatic Weapons to the Mexican Drug Cartels."

Started under Bush..............

By: bfra on 12/17/12 at 10:56

brrrrk - I you reread my original post, I DO voice my opinion & try to get the point across about NO assault weapons except for Police & Military. Private individuals have NO need for assault weapons of any kind. They should NOT even be available anywhere for purchase.

By: Loner on 12/17/12 at 10:56

Obviously, Eye Nose & Now is a racist troll, mocking out under-educated black folks...that's his pathetic schtick....another poster boy for today's Republican Party...the party of Nuts, Rednecks & A-holes.....Ben, he's one of yours?