Up for Debate: 'Occupy' protests, both here and there

Monday, November 21, 2011 at 1:05am

From what you know of the "Occupy Nashville" protests and the state's reaction, what do you make of reports of protests in other cities and how local governments have handled them? Do you see any real change coming from either the action or the reaction of such protests?

Filed under: City Voices
Tagged: Up for Debate

101 Comments on this post:

By: Loner on 11/21/11 at 9:31

Amen, gwhillikers....keep the faith!

By: BenDover on 11/21/11 at 9:37

Wait and see what it's like when the central planners get through with it, Ingleweird.

As it is now we are on the path where intervention (as in the case of home mortgages) causes economic catastrophe and becomes the battle cry for further intervention. The left is destroying this country in promise and in practice. The OWS drones keep calling for more government oversight and the imposition of 'fairness'... how, pray tell, will this make the situation better if the biggest problem is corporate / government cronyism in the first place?

It is a shallow and reactive and short-sighted view that imagines the giving the already uber-powerful government more power will result in wide-spread liberty and prosperity. As it is now if I don't like the prices at Wal-Mart I can shop at Target. But if both are doubling their prices due to additional regulation, labor requirements, health care requirements, etc. then in addition to the enormous direct tax burden advocated by the left we will have another growing and enormous indirect tax burden in the cost of goods and lack of competitiveness of American goods in the world market.

It's like no one want's to hold Barney Frank's feet to the fire for failed results because his heart was in the 'right place' though. Your cure is the cause, my friend.

By: dargent7 on 11/21/11 at 9:44

No, the "cause" is the attitude people like Newt Gingrich hold that the OWS protestors, "want everything given to them".
Gingrich running for President?
Resigned as House Speaker for ethics violations, championed the legal shit against Bill Clinton for having an affair, all the while chasing a staffer around his desk...while married. to a woman who was battling cancer (sounds like John Edwards).
Then, charges Freddie Mac $1.8+- million for "strategic advice" and says, "It's not lobbying".
I don't care if Obama WAS born in Kenya and is the love child from illegal immigrants.
His eggressions and ommissions don't come even close to this bloated, lying hypocrite.

By: Loner on 11/21/11 at 9:58

Ben bitches about the Entitlement programs, but never calls for Defense spending cuts...he thinks that government should be in the guns business...I think that Govt should be in the butter business...we are both right and both wrong.

Ben pleads the case for Scrooge...I plead the case for Tiny Tim's family. This is an old conundrum and won't be solved anytime soon.

The central problem, IMO, is the effect of special interest money in our electoral process; multi-national corporations were recently granted personhood by the USSC....they can now spend as much cash as they wish to buy any politician....it's wide-open.

Money, in the form of campaign "donations" etc. is the root of all that ails our democratic republic...that's what the Occupiers should all be united against.

Suggested signage:
Get the Money Out of Politics!
Bad Mix: Money & Politics.
Bad Mix: Church & State

or something like that.

By: pswindle on 11/21/11 at 10:08

If we did not have a Dr. King to march and protest, and others that were fighting for equality we would still be in the 19th century. Where only white men would have rights. Our State Legislative this year has done everything that they could to strip us of our rights, and our wimpy Governor doesn't know the difference, and he does what he is being told. I hope he doesn't listen to Ramsey. If so, we are in big trouble.

By: Loner on 11/21/11 at 10:10

Amen, Pswindle.

I gotta roll, folks...later!

By: BenDover on 11/21/11 at 10:16

Loner wants to make the corporation out to be some kind of evil instead of a tool. The corporation, like money, is just an efficient way to get things done. Money is the lubricant that makes trade possible. The corporation is just an amalgamation of many individual interests gathering their resources together to accomplish a goal.

Where it all falls apart is in the case of a monopoly where organizations abuse the power of their amalgamated force. In the case of a corporation this is illegal and prosecuted vehemently. In the case of government or labor these monopolies are not prosecuted or considered bad at all but are lauded for their existence and advancement against 'evil' corporations.

The result in the imbalance of power is the non-value-added cronyism between government and big business... (I qualify with 'big business' because there's no way a small business can ever get the ear of any one of the 536 people who wield power over this once free nation).

Is the problem corporate money, political polarization due to the 'I have a right to your stuff' mentality in our country now... or is it a lack of statesmanship on the part of the 536 most powerful people in the world?

By: Ingleweird on 11/21/11 at 10:29

Ben,
Why do you insist on mischaracterizing the Occupy movement?

The three goals of Occupy Nashville are:
1) Remove money from politics
2) End corporate personhood
3) Support the Occupy Wall Street movement

Government is selectively enforcing the laws upon businesses and corporations. I suspect this lax oversight is due to the influence of corporate money on our politicians. Like the tea party, we want the government to answer to the PEOPLE, not to their campaign donors or to lobbyists.

Clearly, we view the mortgage crisis differently. I believe the banks and lenders WILLINGLY gambled with our homes, and knew the government would bail them out (due, once again, I suspect, to the influence of their dirty lobbying money). If the banks were at all scrupulous, they would not have signed off on loans for non-credit-worthy borrowers. How is it right that the banks were bailed out, and they continue to foreclose?

Furthermore, I should mention, the Occupy movement is reportedly evenly split on support of Obama. Many, like tea party supporters, are Ron Paul fans. Many of us are aware and disgusted with fractional reserve lending and fiat-based currency. Officially, we cannot endorse specific candidates.

Finally, where are the jobs? We cannot wean the citizenry off welfare without a sustainable job market. The government and free market economics have failed a sizable and GROWING chunk of able-bodied Americans who are, despite conservative talking heads' mindless regurgitations, willing to work. I say, tax the very wealthy, until realistic solutions are offered. America deserves better.

By: JohnGalt on 11/21/11 at 10:49

Interesting observations from today's Wall Street Journal:

"From Oakland, Calif., to Portland, Ore., to New York, the Occupy Wall Street movement has worn out the patience of even the most liberal cities. The protesters were shocked when politicians stopped excusing their unlawful behavior by referring to their First Amendment rights and instead forcibly removed their tent cities as threats to health and safety.

"The protesters never-ending endgame is a reminder that under the First Amendment, speech may be subject to time, place and manner restrictions that do not include the concept of "occupation."

"One lesson of Occupy Wall Street is that if local authorities permit campouts, people will camp out. This permissive approach created a false impression of the strength of the movement.

"...in Clark v. Community for Creative Non-Violence (1984), the Supreme Court held that the National Park Service could enforce its rules against sleeping in tents at Washington's Lafayette park and National Mall, even for a symbolic protest about homelessness. The tents in Zuccotti Park were shelter, not symbolic speech. As First Amendment lawyer Floyd Abrams told Reuters, it's a "real stretch to maintain that sleeping in a designated area itself is anything more than what it appears to be."

I'm waiting for Haslam and the other "leaders" to demonstrate some intestinal fortitude and evict the camping squatters once and for all.

By: BenDover on 11/21/11 at 10:59

Ingleweird:

Money is free speech. Without it there is no way around the cacophony of individual and largely uninformed populace. That's why we are a representative republic in the first place instead of a direct democracy.

Ending corporate personhood would end the collective influence of private companies meaning that a vast interest necessary to the well-being of our country would have no voice in our country.

And Blind support of OWS is idiocy because it's been largely hijacked by commie and nut anarchists.

If you want to get rid of cronyism in government then hit government not businesses. It is government that has usurped the power of private business and dangles it out as bait to the highest bidder for those willing to play crony ball with it.

The mortgage crisis was the fault of the CRA expanded greatly under the Clinton administration and the implicit taxpayer warranty of sub-prime debt through fannie and freddie. Reckless Endangerment is a great book on the topic that illustrates how well intended liberal social policy combined with unchecked cronyism brought us to the brink of collapse in this country and more of the same will continue us on the path.

Anyone in OWS supporting Obama is an idiot because he's more the crony than any of the previous administrations. He and Goldman Sachs are butt buddies. And Ron Paul may as well be his twin Marshall Applewhite for his fiscal and foreign policy. This guy wants to go full isolationist in an already delicately balanced world trade and security situation and he wants to abolish the Federal Reserve, giving congress the keys to the printing presses. We'd be Zimbabwe in two election cycles.

As for Jobs it is Obama who has f*cked that up royally... first in promise with his campaigning on bankrupting the coal industry and doubling the capital gains taxes out of fairness... then in practice with a huge pork deficit stimulus re-election package and ridiculous labor, environmental and energy policy along with Obamacare... and further in promise again for fear of what these Harvard faculty lounge Marxist might do next.

By: Ingleweird on 11/21/11 at 11:34

I wouldn't say OWS has ben hijacked by commies and anarchists anymore than tea party has been hijacked by racists and librul-haters. I'm sorry you feel like calling us idiots. I'm sorry you feel that Obama is directly responsible for job creation. I think that Obama is more of the same since Reagan. Clinton was no saint; he just continued the big government policies of Reagan. How can you rail against big government and deify Ron Reagan without flinching? Furthermore, I think the problems that plague our nation are bigger than who's occupying the Oval Office.

That said, money is NOT free speech. No company's profits should come at the expense of the voters. No one's voice's volume is louder due to the contents of their wallet. Your assertion in this regard is patently false.

By: LizzyD on 11/21/11 at 11:44

http://www.timesnews.net/article/9038511/occupy-protesters-disrupt-donald-rumsfeld39s-125-a-plate-dinner-event-at-nashville-hotel

Rummy not so welcome in Nashville after all.

Wonder how come no Nashville news sources have done a good followup story to their press release?

By: brrrrk on 11/21/11 at 12:04

sidneyames said

"Loner can't complain about anything. He spent 2 years (?) in the military; worked as a postal employee and got paid really well for doing it and is now retired on a government pension, plus social security. So Loner is not part of the 99%; he's part of the 1%. Or else why would he always be on vacation?"

Based on 2009 tax year filing data, the Internal Revenue Service says an adjusted gross income, or AGI, of $343,927 or more will put you in the top 1 percent of taxpayers.... and that's 2009!!!

Holy crap Loner.... you makin' this much?!?!

By: BenDover on 11/21/11 at 12:38

first they came for the 1%...

By: dargent7 on 11/21/11 at 12:51

Ah, what's the use?
The South will always be the "South".
Intellects and liberals will always be labeled as Communists or Marxists.
Republicans, who are on their 3rd wife with numerous adulterous affairs, will be labeled as, "Conservative, Christian, "Family Values" people".
Two- faced, bald liars, can finangle their way out of their corners by pointing the finger at the other side:, "It's them, not me!"
"It's not lobbying or taking bribes, racketerring, collusion, insider trading....". "It's strategic advise", "that I suggest you take".
Ah, what's the use?

By: Captain Nemo on 11/21/11 at 1:13

I think the dung beetle needs to give Loner his military credentials.

By: Captain Nemo on 11/21/11 at 1:13

Sidneyames comes on strong like she has a pair of balls, but quickly disappears under the rug.

By: Captain Nemo on 11/21/11 at 1:14

By: Ingleweird on 11/21/11 at 10:29
Ben,
Why do you insist on mischaracterizing the Occupy movement?

I think Ben is afraid that his little empire will collapse when the truth comes out. But don’t worry Ben, I sure that some of the greedy always manages to survive.

By: Captain Nemo on 11/21/11 at 1:14

By: BenDover on 11/21/11 at 12:38
first they came for the 1%...

Oh Ben! That is just precious.

By: Captain Nemo on 11/21/11 at 1:16

Spot on dargent. Spot on.

By: gdiafante on 11/21/11 at 1:21

Only in America can people get in a pissing contest about which protest group is better.

Circling the drain...

By: Captain Nemo on 11/21/11 at 1:22

By: gwhillikers on 11/21/11 at 9:25
If I were not 83 years old with a couple of serious medical problems, I damn sure would be out there "occupying." The kids KNOW what's wrong: All the money but few of the taxes are flowing to the top 1%.

Someone older than the old fogi and he is 2 years smarter than the dung beetle. That is if we go by the logic of the micro brain.

By: brrrrk on 11/21/11 at 1:28

BenDover said

"first they came for the 1%..."

Really? Give me a break......

By: yogiman on 11/21/11 at 1:36

Might work if you had a brain to work with, dumba...

By: Captain Nemo on 11/21/11 at 1:41

How would you know s8it face.

B/T/W tell Loner about your military record, if you have one.

By: Captain Nemo on 11/21/11 at 1:43

Don't worry Ben Loner and I will protect you. ;-)

By: Captain Nemo on 11/21/11 at 1:46

And your UFO sightings don’t count as a military record old dogi.

By: yogiman on 11/21/11 at 2:04

Well, dumba..,

Since you never served in our military, my military records are none of your business. If Loner wants to know, to compare his with mine, I'd be glad to give him my records.

But then, you'd want to come look at them "for him", wouldn't you? Needles to say, as a "man" with your mentality (or lack thereof), you wouldn't be welcome in my home.

By: BigPapa on 11/21/11 at 2:05

Haslam should outsource and use others to get ride of the OWS folks. Don't dirty the hand of the police, just get some Hells Angles or some Crips or Bloods to to take care of your dirty work.

You denounce the violence, make some token arrests, make some back door concessions to whatever group. Problem solved.

By: zebrotha on 11/21/11 at 2:10

This isn’t about free speech; it’s about the redefinition of “justice” as the use of a political system to confiscate time and money from anybody with more than Obama’s Whining Socialists believe to be morally correct. No matter whether people are profiteering from political chicanery or are decent business people honestly and profitably selling widgets, commie thieves redefine “the rich” as universal exploiters and “the poor” as universally exploited, so as to artificially redefine their welfare state paycheck “redistribution” as remedy to exploitation.

The Occucommies, like their playbook Manifesto, deliberately do not say just exactly what income amount divides the bourgeois exploiters from the exploited proletariat, only that the difference between honest trade and exploitation is irrelevant, bank account total is all. OccuCommies don’t pinpoint this exact amount because their only identification of “exploiters” is the same technique used by all thieves to choose a mark...anyone with stuff they want. Having stuff is their sole “evidence” of “exploitation” for which Commie justice demands “remedial” redistribution to equalize the stuff between those who have it and the thieves who want it. This stereotype driven commie process always devolves from voting booth theft to outright looting, or as the Manifesto calls it “property redistribution,” mainly because the simpletons in the global professoriate and media champion commie thieves and their welfare states, in the mistaken belief that the “remedial” exploitation of welfare state redistribution coupled to class stereotypes is all there is to the issue of human rights.

By: Captain Nemo on 11/21/11 at 2:12

When face with showing evidence you start with the excuses, like all liars do.

Tell Loner dump-face. You wanted to know his, now tell him yours.

By: Captain Nemo on 11/21/11 at 2:16

BigPapa-

That is the way conservatives and the right-wing fringe handles thing, with violence. This farther proves how scared you cowards are.

By: Captain Nemo on 11/21/11 at 2:19

BigPapa’s way is like what went on in Libya, Egypt,Tunisia and what is going on in Syria now.

By: Captain Nemo on 11/21/11 at 2:21

Joining the line of cowards, come zebrotha.

By: Captain Nemo on 11/21/11 at 2:23

Someone else take over. I got to go shopping.

By: dargent7 on 11/21/11 at 2:37

"Occucommies"?
The reality is the Conservative Right is like an appendix, USE-less, but still there.
Needs to be surgically removed when it gets agitated. Which the Republican Party is right now...USE-less.
At least Cain, when he cried, had Stage 4 cancer of the colon. Often fatal.
The rest of these "Washington Insiders" cry about a canker sore.
Gingrich epitomizes the far right's pathetic clinging to out dated and out molded paradigms.
The ass-hole has a $500,000 revolving Tiffany's charge account to keep his 3rd wife in baubles.
If this guy gets the nomination.....I'd say it's impossible but that's what I said about GW Bush getting a 2nd term.

By: bfra on 11/21/11 at 2:54

yogi - Did you bother to read about the 2 yr enlistments in the Army? Oh, I forgot, you can only read trool sites & trash.

By: brrrrk on 11/21/11 at 3:12

BigPapa said

"Haslam should outsource and use others to get ride of the OWS folks. Don't dirty the hand of the police, just get some Hells Angles or some Crips or Bloods to to take care of your dirty work.

You denounce the violence, make some token arrests, make some back door concessions to whatever group. Problem solved."

And by God, that's the American way.....

By: brrrrk on 11/21/11 at 4:17

Hey BigPapa, this should soothe your need for violence...

http://act.boldprogressives.org/sign/signon_ows_ucfaculty/?akid=5852.425126.iYr4Y4&rd=1&source=e1-occupy-fin&t=2

There's nothing more manly and moral than pepper spraying people that are just sitting there....

By: BenDover on 11/21/11 at 4:33

Geezzz BigPapa... sounds like a Sons of Anarchy episode. .

By: BenDover on 11/21/11 at 4:35

down twinkles... BigPapa... down twinkles...

By: yogiman on 11/21/11 at 4:47

No bfra,

I never read anything about 2 year enlistments in the Army. Do you have the answers? When were the offered? How long did that offer last? What is the minimum enlistment time today? I'm sure you have the answers.

By: bfra on 11/21/11 at 5:22

yogi - dumbarse, go to the site I gave you and read all about 2 yr. enlistment, if you don't comprehend what you read, maybe one ofyour sheep can explain it!

By: BenDover on 11/21/11 at 5:24

On another more important topic, I hope somebody catches that child rapist down in Antioch, lashes his wrists to the bumper of a truck and then drives around for a couple of hours at 5mph.

By: Captain Nemo on 11/21/11 at 5:27

You you think sid has something to do with this?

By: bfra on 11/21/11 at 5:43

Ben - I will agree with you on dragging the scumbag!

By: zebrotha on 11/21/11 at 7:19

Yes, Occucommies, Dargent.... if the problem is the political favoritism of corporate campaign contributors, and it is, and BOTH parties are guilty, then why are you on Wall Street instead of D.C. Probably because D.C. is out of money, its officials having "redistributed" OUR money to themselves, their millions of overpaid flunkies, their favored corporations, as well as a little trickle down for welfare thieves and their socially destructive spawn. And now, like all commies, you're hitting on the people who still have money, bankers, most of which, by the way is OUR money, and it doesn't matter to you, whether they are corrupt politically favored bankers or just honest businesses trying to make an honest profit.

Think back, which party redefined "charity" as welfare state paycheck confiscation and "redistribution"...both of them....why, because welfare states compel all people to send a good portion of their income and all of the power behind that money to politicians, who use it to retain political power. And now that welfare state "redistribution" has resulted in its inevitable adverse social and economic consequences of destroying job opportunities outside of political favoritism, (because who wants to waste their only lives building businesses and jobs to support commie thieves, ) the only way to keep what's left of OUR money flowing from our pockets to political pockets is to scapegoat "the rich," as the cause of all adversity.

The typical commie "rich" scapegoat taking the blame for welfare state consequences is precisely what politicians need to continue pretending that more welfare state "redistribution" will eventually result in "equality." A population of suckers is very likely to imitate the ever stupid media and follow the lead of the Occucommies, insisting that politicians confiscate even more of OUR money, of which most will be spent on themselves and their favored corporations. This has nowhere to go but national bankruptcy and it isn't the fault of "banks;" the fault is a voting majority, futilely hoping that the thieves they elected to steal for them will stop hogging the loot, and give it to them.

By: Loner on 11/21/11 at 10:01

"Zebrotha" = "the brother" in ebonics?

This newcomer sounds like Serr8d, but more incoherent. Another name-calling, Limbaugh-loving, Tea Party type. Another tin-foil-helmet-wearing commie-hunter. Another Joe McCarthy wannabe. Unless he's fabulously rich, another useful idiot for the one percenters.

Just what we needed. We needed fresh meat....and suddenly a bobble-headed turkey trots into our campsite....I claim the white meat!

Let us be thankful for what we are given.

By: Loner on 11/21/11 at 10:08

Ben's bumper sticker: Drag a scumbag for Christ!

Did not hear about this child rapist in Antioch...I have no mercy for creeps like that...but bumper dragging leaves a protoplasmic smear on the asphalt...as a motorcyclist, I hate it when I hit one of those long and slippery meat streaks. Just take 'em out and shoot 'em.

By: Loner on 11/21/11 at 10:23

Tuned in to Limbaugh this afternoon...he was denigrating the OWS demonstrators...mocked them out with his singing of, "Give Fleas a Chance"...his parody of "Give Peace a Chance".

The fat man also used the phrase, "Right To Lice", to describe the OWS agenda.

Rush accused the protesters of having scabies and last but not least, he reiterated the obligatory public urination-defecation canards.

If there is any justice on this planet, Limbaugh will get attacked by bed bugs in a five-star hotel; that, or he could contract a vexing case of pubic crabs from some skank. Maybe he'll be fatally attacked by giant, shit-eating cockroaches...that would be poetic justice, IMO.