Up for Debate: Penn State's punishment

Monday, July 23, 2012 at 9:05pm

On Monday, NCAA officials announced a $60 million fine against Penn State University, vacated 14 seasons of football victories, and banned the program from bowl play for four years. What's your reaction to the punishment — too much, not enough? Also, do you agree with or disagree with the decision to remove a statue of Joe Paterno from the campus? [Click here for reaction from OVC coaches at media day in Nashville Monday.]  

 

63 Comments on this post:

By: Rasputin72 on 7/23/12 at 11:33

This is certainly a worthy subject for debate. My opinions however are not in concert however with the do-gooders who always lean to political correctness. Penn State and Joe Paterno were nothing but cannon fodder.

By: puddycat on 7/24/12 at 4:46

Cannon fodder ?? How can Paterno and PSU be considered "cannon fodder" when it comes to a cover up which they masterminded and implemented for 14 years? The coaches and staffs, the athletic dept, and the administration were all directly involved in "protecting" the university as a whole, the entire athletic dept, and the football program in particular. Given that, all of the above also greatly benefited from the cover up, otherwise, they would not have done it.

The coach was there for 46 years, 14 of which were secretly and knowingly in violation of NCAA rules. That period represents 30% of the coach's PSU career and certainly cannot be considered as "cannon fodder" when they knowingly brought it upon themselves.

I applaud the NCAA for their approach. Hopefully they have caused many coaches, ad's, and administration officials at schools around the country to begin losing sleep and scheduling staff meetings at all levels. If only PSU had done that in 1998, they could have avoided much of this.

By: dargent7 on 7/24/12 at 5:56

Will the $60. million go to the boys Sandusky molested? Hope so.
Erasing the wins and banning them from Bowl games hurts the players who I assume didn't know what Sandusky was doing.
It was the coaches and admin. personnel who all knew and did nothing.
They all got fired, Paterno's dead, and I hope they lost their pensions.
Sandsusky will die in prison and that's where his idiotic wife should also be.
Penn State will probably loose further endowments and see a 25% drop in admissions.
There's plenty of other fine colleges students can attend.

By: yogiman on 7/24/12 at 6:20

The young players of today had nothing to do with the evils of yesteryear. To disallow them the right to play in bowl games they rightfully earned isn't "fair play" to them.

By: gdiafante on 7/24/12 at 6:23

And neither is allowing a program, that initiated a massive cover-up, the right to play in bowl games and reap those benefits.

Let the kids transfer to other schools without penalty but keep everything else the same.

By: govskeptic on 7/24/12 at 6:35

The sins of Penn State officials followed the same line that happens in so
many other institutions both Public and Private. Whether in a Church or
a company like Enron or American Tobacco or the US Military when the
truth is hidden to protect or cover the sins strictly to protect one's own job
and the "reputation of the institution" from wrong doing, it's totally corruptible!

The 60 million dollar fine along with whatever comes from lawsuits by the
victims is going to cost "someone" a great deal of money. Will that come
from Penn State Endowments or from the state's taxpayers? Likely both!

By: Kosh III on 7/24/12 at 7:50

The 60 million is the only subtantive penalty.
How many bowl games have they gone to? Were they expected to go to one in the next few years?
The victories being voided? BFD. It's already happened and the players who participated can still have personal satisfaction over having played even if some record book gets changed.
The administrators and coaches should lose all pensions or other benefits and be indicted--soon. Zero Tolerance even for the 1%.

By: gdiafante on 7/24/12 at 7:56

The wins were vacated purely so Paterno was no longer the all-time leader in wins.

By: Kosh III on 7/24/12 at 8:19

The one thing that needs to change, and will NOT change is our excessive obsession with these sporting events. Players will still be treated like gods, we'll continue to throw good money away on trivialities and ignore serious issues like educating our children, stopping the Endless War Machine and the air-speed velocity of unladen swallows.

By: gdiafante on 7/24/12 at 8:24

Kosh, it's my theory that as the American experience deteriorates, people find other things to focus on, sports being one. It allows a person whose own life is full of defeat a chance to live vicariously through a team's triumph.

It's a sad commentary, really, on the state of life in America.

By: BenDover on 7/24/12 at 8:37

African or European?

By: slacker on 7/24/12 at 8:41

Unladen swallows are refusing to return to Capistrano, until Obamacare is overturned.

By: Kosh III on 7/24/12 at 8:45

African of course; Kenyan to be exact.

By: BenDover on 7/24/12 at 8:47

Oh geeezzz... you said 'Kenyan'... here it comes...

By: yogiman on 7/24/12 at 8:56

Hang in there, BenDover. I gotta cut my grass first.

By: gdiafante on 7/24/12 at 9:00

And by grass he means grass...weed...mary jane...Texas tea...Maui wowie...combustible herbage...hippie lettuce...

By: slacker on 7/24/12 at 9:01

For Sale: Gently used statue of Joe Paterno
Only 60 million dollars, cash (unmarked bills)
contact: Penn State athletic dept.

By: yogiman on 7/24/12 at 9:05

Kosh III,

I agree everyone at the university who knew what was going on are as guilty the acting criminal and should expect to "pay" for it.

But I don't believe anyone who was ignorant of the facts should be punished with the guilty.

By: gdiafante on 7/24/12 at 9:14

But, the university was guilty as a whole, so how do you punish them without those who were innocent getting screwed?

By: yogiman on 7/24/12 at 9:41

Damn, it's hot out there. I had to come in for a break.

gdiafarte, if one member of a family are guilty of a crime, should all of them be considered guilty? Me thinks not.

I've known too many members of families in my life's span that turned out to be criminals when all the others were good people.

I've also know crooks in retail stores but the other employees weren't. Should they all be fired and taken to court?

I believe that would also hold true with Penn State.

By: BenDover on 7/24/12 at 9:47

Yogi's point is valid.

By: gdiafante on 7/24/12 at 9:50

A university isn't a family, it's an institution. If an institution is at at fault, you penalize it. By allowing players to transfer, they are not being punished. If players choose to stay, they know what they're getting.

Life isn't fair.

By: gdiafante on 7/24/12 at 9:54

And honestly, where is the outrage when the NCAA handed out penalties in the past? USC got hit pretty hard, were all the players there responsible? How about UT? Should I post a list of schools that have been sanctioned?

By: gdiafante on 7/24/12 at 9:58

And in Penn State's case, those in charge put the football program ahead of child safety. In my opinion, the university should have gotten the death penalty.

By: BenDover on 7/24/12 at 10:27

I guess the NCAA is into its own reputation management here. "And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire." Matthew 18:9

I see the other point too... and the bible is mixed on the matter:

"Keeping steadfast love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children's children, to the third and the fourth generation.” Exodus 34:7

“Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin." Deuteronomy 24:16

Moses seems a little schizophrenic here but one speaks to Mosaic law and the other God's wrath I believe.

By: gdiafante on 7/24/12 at 10:29

Bible-thumping, Ben? You do realize what the NCAA "Death Penalty" is? lol

By: budlight on 7/24/12 at 10:36

G, so if yu worked for Exon and they were found guilty, but you were just a hard working convenience store worker trying to put food on the table, you should be punished for what a drunk captain of a ship did? NOT! The arm of justice does not reach that far.

Kosh III on 7/24/12 at 7:50
The 60 million is the only subtantive penalty.
How many bowl games have they gone to? Were they expected to go to one in the next few years?
The victories being voided? BFD. It's already happened and the players who participated can still have personal satisfaction over having played even if some record book gets changed.
The administrators and coaches should lose all pensions or other benefits and be indicted--soon. Zero Tolerance even for the 1%.

Kosh, are you speaking of the 1% of the so-called rich? Remember, there are people in the 99% who are also pedophiles -- probably a great percentage -- because you can google them on your local sex registry.

And there are some democrats who are filthy rich - starting with Nancy (my daddy left it to me and hubby ain't doing too badly) Pelosi (who probably spends more on botox than I spend on any of my health related products). She's the epitome the 1% as far as I can tell. She does not have a clue as to what hardship and real life are about.

At least Mitt Romney's wife can relate: 5 children (boys no less); a major life altering long-term deteriorating medical condition, and a major life threatening condition (cancer). Tell me that any other woman in the white house has ever overcome so much (besides Hillary having to be totally humiliated by Bill - talk about sexual abusers). So please Kosh, don't just toss the 1% figure about so loosely.

And as to Penn State, it's a shame that an entire community will suffer - restaurants, hotels, people who work in them; gift shops and all kinds of businesses are supported by, or support, college games of any kind. Vanderbilt, TSU, MTSU, are all cases in point. If Vanderbilt folded, the hospital would pick up some of the slack. BUT there would be loses!

By: budlight on 7/24/12 at 10:38

Ben, thank you. It is so good when someone can give the lesson or the point and then give the actual address where we can find it. Praise God for people who really study the Bible.

By: BenDover on 7/24/12 at 10:43

I do, gd.

These bible verses just seemed relative to the topic. The Bible use to be a source of shared knowledge that provided the culture a common denominator and basis for discussion and discourse.

Now we have Seinfeld.

By: gdiafante on 7/24/12 at 10:44

Well, bud, that's the free market at work. I'm not sure what Exxon's penalties would be, I assume you mean that they would be restricted from producing gas (which makes no sense). But, if you're arguing that people stop using Exxon gas because they destroyed the environment, oh well. That's capitalism at work. The power of the consumer.

You can use hypotheticals all you want but what the facts indicate is a (and you and yogi should love this...) conspiracy by Penn State officials. People are going to jail. Some people who had nothing to do with it are going to be punished. There's no way to avoid it. End of story.

By: gdiafante on 7/24/12 at 10:50

I wonder if the Bible has a passage that justifies your willingness to overlook the true victims and instead whine about university employees and students.

In other words, you know where you can stick your verses.

By: dargent7 on 7/24/12 at 10:55

Well, considering it's the South, the Bible has to emerge.
Where was God when this lunatic blasted 12 dead and 75 injured. Some will be paralyzed forever. God "signed off" on the 6 year old girl being killed?
Where was God when Loughner shot 6 dead and wounded 12, shooting Gabby Giffords in the head?
Everyday, there's the "we seek comfort in Jesus Christ" after people get killed.
It's always AFTER people getting killed that brings us closer to God.
What a joke!

By: gdiafante on 7/24/12 at 11:01

Children were raped...authority figures knew and covered it up...but let's worry about a few football players that may not get to be in a bowl game...

WTF is wrong with people??

By: budlight on 7/24/12 at 11:01

You know G, all of us can, and have become victims at one time or another. There are a large number of people who have been sexually exploited, abused, misused or just plain misguided. But does that mean we have to all be standing on the stage, displaying our angst to the world? These people puzzle me. For the past 20 years our country has had a dialogue going on about sexual abuse, in the family and outside the family. The media has been supplying all of us with everything we need - such as warning signs, what to do when you have been abuses (or think you have), resources to get help and all that. What surprises me is the number of people who are benefitting, such as college athletes getting a free ride because of a sports ability, who then feel they just can't turn in the perp, or they might lose their scholarship or something. Then they ultimately turn them in. Sounds strrange to me. If one is truly a victim, they scream immediately. If you get stabbed or shot, you don't wait to scream. So if someone is sexually abused, they should scream immediately. Maybe that would have saved a lot of other victims. But hey! It's not a perfect world is it?

And G, I am only a victim IF I allow myself to be.

By: budlight on 7/24/12 at 11:09

By: dargent7 on 7/24/12 at 10:55
Well, considering it's the South, the Bible has to emerge.
Where was God when this lunatic blasted 12 dead and 75 injured. Some will be paralyzed forever. God "signed off" on the 6 year old girl being killed?
Where was God when Loughner shot 6 dead and wounded 12, shooting Gabby Giffords in the head?
Everyday, there's the "we seek comfort in Jesus Christ" after people get killed.
It's always AFTER people getting killed that brings us closer to God.
What a joke!

D7, no one is mandated to believe in God. He has given us the free will to make our own choices.

I have a friend who met a guy in Price Utah who fit the description of Ted Bundy. He was driving a Porsche. They made a date. She got sick and didn't get to go on the date. And yet, a 14 year old in Provo, met up with him and ended up dead. Her parents were in so much pain, they sold their home in Provo and moved to Price, Utah just off the Old Wellington Road. Before Bundy died, he disclosed that he 14 year old was buried near or on the Old Wellington Road.

My question: Did God do that? No, D7. Life happens. People get lucky. The girl who got sick didn't go out with Bundy. Did that save her life? Well, she actually died a year or so later from the illness. And the people who moved to escape the pain of their daughter's death by Bundy, did it help them? Maybe. Maybe Not. How ironic to find he has buried your child near the very place you tried to go for an escape.

My point is that God is there for all of us -- BEFORE, DURING AND AFTER A CRISIS. Some people seek solace in a bottle, some in a joint, some in another person, some in work and some in the faith they have in God. I find great comfort in God. I can feel his presence at times. How could a person sit in the forest and view all the wildlife and see what a great land we have, and not believe?

By: BenDover on 7/24/12 at 11:10

Geeezzz gd... everyone wants to see justice served over this attrocity. Your irrational wrath against people who had nothing to do with it is pretty ridiculous though.

By: Beernazi on 7/24/12 at 11:15

bud is the perfect spokesperson for Christianity. Especially the old testament.

By: brrrrk on 7/24/12 at 11:16

dargent7 said

"Well, considering it's the South, the Bible has to emerge.
Where was God when this lunatic blasted 12 dead and 75 injured."

" God is the author of all; still we are assured that evil does not come from God. Whence, then, does it come? From men? But who has made men? It is God: then that evil comes from God. If He had not made men as they are, moral evil or sin would not exist in the world. We must blame God, then, that man is so perverse. If man has the power to do wrong or to offend God, we must conclude that God wishes to be offended; that God, who has created man, resolved that evil should be done by him: without this, man would be an effect contrary to the cause from which he derives his being." - French Catholic priest, Jean Meslier.

By: Kosh III on 7/24/12 at 11:22

Voter suppression advocates admit there is no problem: from Huffington Post

"state officials conceded that they had no evidence of prior in-person voter fraud, or even any reason to believe that such crimes would occur with more frequency if a voter ID law wasn't in effect.

"There have been no investigations or prosecutions of in-person voter fraud in Pennsylvania; and the parties do not have direct personal knowledge of any such investigations or prosecutions in other states,” the statement reads.

According to the agreement, the state “will not offer any evidence in this action that in-person voter fraud has in fact occurred in Pennsylvania and elsewhere,” nor will it "offer argument or evidence that in-person voter fraud is likely to occur in November 2012 in the absense of the Photo ID law.”

By: brrrrk on 7/24/12 at 11:26

Kosh III said

"Voter suppression advocates admit there is no problem: from Huffington Post

'state officials conceded that they had no evidence of prior in-person voter fraud, or even any reason to believe that such crimes would occur with more frequency if a voter ID law wasn't in effect.' "

Republicans in the state of Pa. have even gone so far as to state that the new voter laws will likely deliver the state to Romney..... I have lots of relatives in Pa and all I can say is, don't bet on it.

By: gdiafante on 7/24/12 at 11:59

My "wrath" (lol) is against idiots that are whining about the football players. Putting sports above people is what got Penn State in trouble in the first place. You'd think people would learn.

Then again, we are talking about people here...so why should I be surprised?

By: yogiman on 7/24/12 at 12:03

Only criminals are guilty of a crime, gdiafarte. Why punish me for something you did?

By: govskeptic on 7/24/12 at 12:05

The best part was the NCAA confirming UT actually won the 2007 Outback Bowl,
although it comes too late to celebrate, or does it?

By: Rasputin72 on 7/24/12 at 12:05

The bible verse that best fits the predicament that this country is facing at every turn would most likely be "JESUS WEPT"

He did not realize that when the meek inherit the earth that their IQs would come along with their inheritance.

I bet he wishes that he had considered intelligence more in his planning for the leadership of mankind. Every since he started providing loaves and fishes to the huddled masses they have been obsessed with "free stuff"

By: gdiafante on 7/24/12 at 12:08

Yogi, do you not understand the issue at hand? You of all people should understand the concept of a conspiracy and that an organization can be held responsible.

The University knew what was going on and did nothing about it...for years. Not just one person either...

Jeez, I know he's stupid, but come on...

By: gdiafante on 7/24/12 at 12:12

I think if Hell exists, there's a special place there for people who attempt to speak for God/Jesus.

By: yogiman on 7/24/12 at 12:17

We are all different people. Thank God. Who would want to be the same as any other poster on this site?

There's only one thing you can be sure of when you are born into life on this earth, and that is your death. Unless you commit suicide, you never know when that time is coming. There's no way of explaining why that child died at the age of six, but the question arises: what in the world was that 6 years old child doing in that movie at midnight?

Enjoy the life you have on this earth because you may be going to hell when you die because of your actions.

By: Rasputin72 on 7/24/12 at 12:19

Gdiafante.........I think the envious will also be asked to serve in a manner that does not meet their desires as well. If Hell exists you will should be allowed to write a trip report.

By: gdiafante on 7/24/12 at 12:21

Thank you, Raspy, for the I know you are but what am I response. I'll take it under advisement. Now, eat your meat. You don't get any pudding if you don't eat your meat...

chop chop

By: yogiman on 7/24/12 at 12:26

Please, gdiafarte, don't compare me to yourself. The comparison makes me feel bad.