Up for Debate: SCOTUS looks at Arizona's immigration law

Thursday, April 26, 2012 at 2:05am

As the U.S. Supreme Court considers Arizona's immigration law — with possible implications for similar laws in other states — how do you think the high court will rule? How do you think it should rule? Are these recent laws ones that should be re-evaluated and reeled in or expanded?

134 Comments on this post:

By: Loner on 4/26/12 at 1:34

Good morning, Nashville.

When states start to protect their own borders, the fabric of the union is being stretched and stressed....states protected their own borders between 1861 and 1865....these Tea Party addled governors, like AZ Gov. Jan Brewer, remind me of Jeff Davis and company.

Obama should send federal troops into AZ, declare martial law in the state and remove the elected officials from power....states can have their membership in the union pulled, IMO, if they stray too far and AZ is asking to have its statehood revoked.

The area that is now Arizona could be subdivided into more than one state; the POTUS should consider taking drastic action now, to send other rogue states, like Texas, a strong message.

By: Loner on 4/26/12 at 1:43

As for how the SCOTUS will rule, that's a tough call...all we know for sure is that Clarence Thomas will vote however Scalia and Alito vote....Thomas has to have the easiest job in the entire federal government....he just mimics those two ideologues and votes accordingly....George Bush Senior really knew how to pick 'em...Thomas is about as shallow as they get.... a useful idiot for fascism.

This court is so goofy, they may vote for states rights to trump the federal government's power...setting in motion a Second Great Secession. We shall see.

By: dargent7 on 4/26/12 at 4:06

Their decisions which cases to hear are so absurd.
Miranda v. Arizona and Roe v. Wade were the only two that were earth shattering.
Involving themselves in Gore v. Bush in 2000 was criminal.
Their recent, "A Corp. "is a person", is psychotic.

By: bfra on 4/26/12 at 5:43

Instead of discussing or deciding what States are doing about immigration, they should be centered on why Federal immigration laws are not enforced.

By: gdiafante on 4/26/12 at 5:44

I think it sets a dangerous precedent if you allow border states to control international borders, and, IMO, this violates the federal government's laws concerning immigration.

Any one else get the feeling that some would prefer 50 small republics rather than one large one?

By: gdiafante on 4/26/12 at 5:47

Besides, it looks like the economy is taking care of the problem...

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/23/11356986-mexican-immigration-to-us-at-a-standstill-report-says?lite

Notice it also cites heightened border enforcement, a rise in deportations as the possible causes...this would contradict Arizona's defense of controlling their own border...

By: dargent7 on 4/26/12 at 6:08

From my own personal observation:
Currently, in Sylvan Park, there's 10 homes being built and 10 more houses getting, "roofing". Or as we called it, "a roof job".
Everyone doing the work is Hispanic.
I don't know if they're here in Tenn. legally or not.
At the Marriott's 90% of all the workers are Egyptian.
I don't know if they're here legally.
Any border state in America is going to have immigrants, crossing the border, for better pay.
The owners/ managers better get proper documentation as to legality, or face enormous fines, imprisonment.
We really need these 9 dorks to figure this out?

By: Rasputin72 on 4/26/12 at 6:17

Contrary to the opinion of the NAACP and a few liberals the Civil War of 1861 to 1865 was fought over the same principle. It was called "States Rights"

Arizona is absolutely correct in their handling of this situation based on their desires. In the final determination however they will not win. The United States Supreme Court will if it goes that far rule in favor of the underclass.

By: gdiafante on 4/26/12 at 6:19

You're right Rasputin...it was about should the federal government have the ability to dictate whether a state is slave or free, or if the state should choose.

Well, when you break it down, it was really just about the spread of slavery.

By: Rasputin72 on 4/26/12 at 6:21

LONER........Everyone who comments on this board has a talent for something. Justice Thomas and yourself are no different. Justice Thomas is a man of leisure with an ambition to make a contribution to mankind. You sir, are a man of leisure with an ambition to make a contribution to this posting sight.

By: Rasputin72 on 4/26/12 at 6:27

gdiafante, slavery just happened to be the catalyst. The civil war was fought and won by the United States in order to seal the fact that never again did a state have the right to pass a law that was in contradiction to the desires of federal government. So far in the ensuing 150 years no state has been able to do that.

Until I brought it up this morning most people did not know that there was once upon a time a phrase called "states rights"

Arizona is no more a factor than Don Quixote. They are just jousting with windmills.

By: budlight on 4/26/12 at 6:44

: Loner on 4/26/12 at 2:34
Good morning, Nashville.

When states start to protect their own borders, the fabric of the union is being stretched and stressed....states protected their own borders between 1861 and 1865....these Tea Party addled governors, like AZ Gov. Jan Brewer, remind me of Jeff Davis and company. Obama should send federal troops into AZ, declare martial law in the state and remove the elected officials from power....states can have their membership in the union pulled, IMO, if they stray too far and AZ is asking to have its statehood revoked.

Yeah, Loner, let me know if you'd like martial law in New York. I think Obama should yank all citizens' rights and just make slaves out of all of us. We can all work like the Chinease and never have any rights.

bfra on 4/26/12 at 6:43
Instead of discussing or deciding what States are doing about immigration, they should be centered on why Federal immigration laws are not enforced.

bfra, your comments make more sense than anything. The Feds, headed up by the top illegal alian, ODrama, is not enforcing the laws of this country. And thats the way ODrama wants it. Confusion, chaos, division! That is what we have in this country. United we stand! Divided we fall!

By: yogiman on 4/26/12 at 7:00

The United States began as colonies at the beginning. They finally got together and agreed to become "united". For decades the states were their own "bosses" until the federal government began to buy them out with "tax" money to over take their power.

What state would be willing to refuse to "desires" of the federal government by refusing money?

Until the 17th Amendment was passed, the senators were appointed by the state's legislatures. Of course, if they didn't vote on a bill like their state told them to, they could be brought home and replaced.

We now have what we've got, un-united states having differences of opinion.

By: slacker on 4/26/12 at 7:03

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By: frodo on 4/26/12 at 7:04

Loner says, "Clarence Thomas will vote however Scalia and Alito vote." Tell me, Loner, how did Thomas vote before Scalia and Alito came on the court? Actually, I have the inside scoop that Thomas wakes up every day with one aim...to vote in whatever way will hack Loner off. And apparently it has worked pretty well.

I'm guessing that Loner and many others who think controlling an international border is mean-spirited don't own property and don't care whose property they or anyone else trample on. They think America is the world's public square. Basically what they are saying is that, if people want to come camp on my land and trample across it every day and raid my kitchen at night...and if the police aren't interested in doing anything about it...then I should just roll over and let live. I say let Arizona do anything and everything they want to refuse entrance to those who lack permission to be in this country...which mean they lack permission to be in Arizona.

By: yogiman on 4/26/12 at 7:11

budlight,

You can't blame only ODrama for the immigration status of our nation. If he was actually our legal president he would simply fit rightly into the "letum come on in" attitude.

There used to be limits on the amount of immigrants from all nations, and they had to pass medical requirements to stay. That restriction was stopped when the aircraft industry got into strong effect. No president before him has enforced the immigration laws after the restrictions were unenforced.

By: yogiman on 4/26/12 at 7:18

frodo,

I remember decades ago the Mexican border was basically open. Many Mexican citizens living along the border worked in the US and came in every day to work and went home at night.

It has reached the concern now you don't know if the person is an honest Mexican citizen just coming in for a job along the border or a "not too good" anti-American alien coming into the US through the lax Mexican border.

By: gdiafante on 4/26/12 at 7:20

Rasp, it's always been about slavery. The Constitution itself is a compromise regarding slavery. In fact, the 3/5ths clause is in direct contradiction with the Spirit of '76 that all men are created equal.

It was a problem in 1787, they delayed it for 20 more years in 1790 and by the time they began to deal with it, it was so entrenched into the southern economy/society that the only outcome was war.

By: budlight on 4/26/12 at 7:21

Frodo, you are correct. I am not sure if Loner and the "team" he plays for really care about property rights in America. I sometimes get the impression they would like for the gov-ment to take over all of our property, ie, land, homes, cars, guns, credit cards, etc. Then we'd all be slaves. Oh, except for the likes of Bill Gates, Obama, Geitner, Ayers, and that other rich billionaire who says rich people should pay more taxes -- oh yeah - Buffet! You know if all those rich folks think that rich folks should pay more, where is the big donation check they wrote to the U.S. Treasury? They talk a good game but when it comes to "doing" they are absent. They need to put up or shut up!

By: govskeptic on 4/26/12 at 7:22

Look to Loner to make every darn question about the South or Israel.
Can any of us really even imagine what the citizens and taxpayers
of Arizona have had to put up with over the last 15 years with this
problem. The Court will knock down a portion and affirm many
other parts of this law, as they should. Now, off to practice for
tomorrow's 1/20th marathon!

By: Loner on 4/26/12 at 7:29

The rasp pontificates for us: Contrary to the opinion of the NAACP and a few liberals the Civil War of 1861 to 1865 was fought over the same principle. It was called "States Rights"

And what exactly was the God-given "right" that turned brother against brother?

It was the "right" to own African Negro Slaves...it's all outlined and codified in the Confederate Constitution. Texas mentioned "slavery" 21 times in its declaration of secession....all the seceding states published similar statements outlining their reasons for secession....it was all about slavery, folks.

Support for the right for whites to own Negroes was so strong in the ante bellum South, that 11 states seceded from the union and subsequently opened fire on federal installations....this precipitated the horror that claimed 618,000 lives.

And still , unrepentant Confederate sympathizers are riding around with their Confederate flag license plates etc. Lincoln should have let the delusional, hate-filled bigots go their own way.

By: Moonglow1 on 4/26/12 at 7:31

Moonglow1: Jan Brewer is a "lobbyist" for the prison industry. The more "suspected aliens" processed, the more $$ made by private prisons.

Under Obama illegal immigration has decreased. Actually, with our crazies running our govt, people from other countries don't want to come here.

If Romney's polygamous family hiding out in Mexico from American laws want to return, Jan Brewer should round em up and lock em up.

We need a path to citizenship and serious attention to stop the importation of illegal drugs which is at the heart of illegal immigration on the southern boarder.
We also need to stop the illegal arms trade.

By: BenDover on 4/26/12 at 7:37

We should have passed guest worker. Make it easier to do right than it is to do wrong and everyone will come through the front door rather than the back. This way the border resources could be then focused on the minority of people trying to subvert a more reasonable system.

The protectionist sentiments on both sides of the aisle and in the population at large scuttled that idea though.

Obama has solved the problem anyway by destroying the economy. Mexican workers are fleeing back to Mexico in droves.

By: gdiafante on 4/26/12 at 7:38

Obama has solved the problem anyway by destroying the economy.

Here we go again...

By: conservarage on 4/26/12 at 7:44

>Loner:
>Obama should send federal troops into AZ, declare martial law in the state and remove >the elected officials from power....states can have their membership in the union pulled, >IMO, if they stray too far and AZ is asking to have its statehood revoked.

WOW. that is a scary statement. i hope you're joking.

bank robbery, like entering this country illegally, is a federal crime. should local police quit arresting bank robbers?

By: Loner on 4/26/12 at 7:44

Frodo: FYI....Scalia was sworn in on 9/26/86. Thomas was sworn in on 10/23/91. Thomas has voted with Scalia nearly every time. Alito was sworn in on...1/31/06; he too is a Scalia clone.

Thomas has sat on the bench, brooding in cold silence during the oral arguments phase for years now....he's apparently still pissed off about Anita Hill and the hi-tech lynching attempt.

"Justice" Thomas revealed his absolute lack of integrity when he refused to recuse on Bush vs Gore in 2000....since Bush the Elder appointed him, he had a personal conflict of interest in a case involving Bush the Younger. The 5-4 final vote was a banana republic style of victory for the Bush family....America lost prestige world-wide as a result of the tainted election....I hold Thomas responsible for his failures.

By: BenDover on 4/26/12 at 7:50

The Emancipation Proclamation specifically excluded the Northern Slave states from the obligation to free the slaves. It was not a decree of compassion and righteousness it was an instrument of war. (read it if you don't believe).

Lincoln on several occasions stated and wrote that if he could preserve the union by maintaining the institution of slavery he would do so.

The Civil War and subsequent Reconstruction set race reconciliation in this country back 100 years. Mechanization, automation and international trade pressure would have solved the problem without a single musket ball fired. Better would have been Ralph Waldo Emerson's suggestion, "why not just buy out the slaveowner's interest through eminent domain?"... Why not, indeed? Hindsight is 20/20 though.

Oh yeah... and btw... hang around a while, Raspy, you might learn something.

By: BenDover on 4/26/12 at 7:53

Thomas is a consistent constitutionalists, loner. Your beef is not with him it is with the constitution.

By: Rasputin72 on 4/26/12 at 7:54

There are only 13 or 14 people who convey their thoughts and bias on this board. The differential between beliefs and attitudes are quite diverse. In a country with 300 million people I hope someone can see how in the near future there will be insurrection of some kind.

I am betting on the underclass because they are accustomed to the rigors of disarray and confustion and hardship. It is their creed and will continue to be after they occupy the White House.

By: Loner on 4/26/12 at 7:57

Conservarage, when it comes to preserving the union of American states, I seldom joke around. My home county, tiny Orleans Co., New York, lost 455 young men in the Civil War.

There is a monument, a stone masonry tower, dedicated to their sacrifice located on Mount Albion....a National Registry cemetery. In the vestibule of that tower are nine marble tablets listing the names of the fallen and their outfit names.....the tower has a spiral staircase that leads to an observation deck, about 3 stories above grade..... above the the entrance-way to this sandstone monument are these words: " For those who fell in defence of the union"

My own great great grandfather fought with those men, he was wounded badly in one leg, captured at Cold Harbor...he survived being a POW at Libby Prison, where he contracted scurvy. When the war ended, he was discharged as a limping, toothless 21 year-old...I keep the faith for those men.

By: BenDover on 4/26/12 at 8:01

Gore's attempt to steal the election in 2000 was a clear violation of the 14th Amendment's equal protection clause (not even considering the recount shenanigans). The court ruled 7/2 on that matter.

The Gore / Daley strategy was to have the poll workers in sympathetic districts handle the ballots enough to swing the election. Then he simply wanted to recount over and over until he got a result he liked and could declare victory. Since the race was within the margin of error it was just a matter of time before it would happen.

It was a manipulation of the voting process and the uncertainty created by it that was destructive to the country and the economy.

By: pswindle on 4/26/12 at 8:01

This Supreme Court is the worse in history. The laws that they have upheld will destroy our country if the Congress does not overturn some of these GOP decisons. They started down the wrong path when they chose a president in 2000. They are a joke, but as scary joke. They can do real harm like the finance law that deals with money, money and elections.

By: Rasputin72 on 4/26/12 at 8:03

BenDover.........I have hung around long enough to be educated, wealthy and develop a facade. The facade was an excellent resource during my days in business. At this stage of life I never venture outside my circle of friends and fellow club members. 98% of whom have the same values and viewpoints and rememberance of their United States history class as I do.

In any case I cannot criticize you for your beliefs as we have not reached the point in this country as yet where my beliefs are better than yours or yours better than mine.

By: Captain Nemo on 4/26/12 at 8:06

We should send bud and yogi to the Arizona- Mexican border that would keep scare off any invasion.

By: Captain Nemo on 4/26/12 at 8:06

The Arizona law is only for show. Jan Brewer is looking for a new job. The real threats are the drug cartels and the people that buy their merchandize and not the people trying to make a living. Just make it so people can get a guest-work permit.

By: BenDover on 4/26/12 at 8:07

Sorry Raspy... it was just a dig because of the juvenile shot you took about no one here ever having heard of or considered the "state's rights" argument.

By: Loner on 4/26/12 at 8:08

By: BenDover on 4/26/12 at 8:53

Thomas is a consistent constitutionalists, loner. Your beef is not with him it is with the constitution.

Thomas is a "consistent constipationalist"...he waits for Scalia to excrete a pent-up opinion, then he dives on it...it's as if he was an extension of Scalia's verbal alimentary canal.....Thomas is the dung beetle of the Supreme Court...he follows Scalia's trail, like a dung beetle follows the elephant.

I do not see any evidence supporting the idea that Clarence Thomas is an intellectual, a deep-thinker or a "great mind"....I see a judge who is always ready to go to lunch early.

By: BenDover on 4/26/12 at 8:10

Since the US government sent those Cartel's 10,000 automatic weapons under the Fast and Furious gun walker scheme you'd think the US government would take a little more interest in protecting the states harmed by them, Nemo.

By: Rasputin72 on 4/26/12 at 8:11

BENDOVER......I accept your rebuttal and in your case it was a "cheap shot" This board is so open that sometimes one assumes more about the lack of intelligence than he should. That statement I made was "far too broad in actuality.:

By: Captain Nemo on 4/26/12 at 8:14

I keep reading this post of why the south should have won the war. Slavery is good and the people that were against it are bad. My suspicions that there are those that want to rekindle that evil war are hoping that the fighting will start soon. Yet these same persons will stand and worship the Stars and Stripes like it is a religious icon.

By: Loner on 4/26/12 at 8:19

Ben Dover still thinks that the 2000 election was legit....never mind the fact that the deciding SCOTUS vote was cast by a judge that his daddy had appointed and the crucial disputed vote count occurred in a state where another son of a Bush (Jeb) was the sitting Governor.

Ben, it was a banana republic style election...it made America look bad...real bad.....do not fool yourself, the whole episode stunk and will continue to stink for as long as this nation exists.

Both parties let the nation down...the Dems should have demanded Electoral College reform...they did not...they prefer democracy-lite to the full-strength stuff....it makes their jobs so much easier.

By: slacker on 4/26/12 at 8:20

lol Loner. You're right, poor Clarence is no intellectual.
His favorite day is wednesday, meat-loaf day. Early birds get free tea.

By: Loner on 4/26/12 at 8:21

Amen, brother Nemo.

By: Loner on 4/26/12 at 8:23

Slack..."Is this a pubic hair on my tea-cup?"

By: slacker on 4/26/12 at 8:26

Clarence Thomas walks into a bar... orders a ''Fuzzy Navel''

By: Loner on 4/26/12 at 8:27

Once again, the Sunshine State, is attempting to elect the POTUS for the rest of us....if Marco Rubio gets the VP slot, as many predict, we could witness Banana Republic II the sequel to the 2000 show...."Return of the Hanging Chad".

By: Loner on 4/26/12 at 8:30

Clarence Thomas walks into a bar... orders a ''Fuzzy Navel''...

...and asks, "Where is the piano and where are the gays?"

By: Loner on 4/26/12 at 8:34

Maybe Jeb Bush will get the Veep nod...he has publicly said that he's up for it...he's tanned & rested...he's the more jovial, likable of the Bush Boys....name recognition on the ticket is good for mega-cash donations..the Bush family could score again.

Maybe they should just exhume the old block, Prescott Bush, and clone him?

By: Captain Nemo on 4/26/12 at 8:35

Clarence Thomas is a switch- hitter?

By: BenDover on 4/26/12 at 8:37

"I keep reading this post of why the south should have won the war. Slavery is good and the people that were against it are bad. My suspicions that there are those that want to rekindle that evil war are hoping that the fighting will start soon. Yet these same persons will stand and worship the Stars and Stripes like it is a religious icon."

I respectfully disagree and think that has more to do with your world view than with anything anyone has said, Nemo.