Up for Debate: Scrutiny descends upon accused in Afghan killings

Monday, March 19, 2012 at 2:01am

For better or worse, the media has begun dissecting the personal life of Army Staff Sergeant Robert Bales on the heels of his alleged involvement in killing 16 Afghan civilians. Can Bales hope to have a fair trial? Should a trial take place in the U.S. or in Afghanistan?

Filed under: City Voices
Tagged: Up for Debate

92 Comments on this post:

By: Loner on 3/19/12 at 5:15

Good morning, Nashville.

Sgt. Bales will get a military trial, not a long & drawn out civilian show trial....and he will be tried here, not in Afghanistan.

To me, Sgt. Bale's rampage is a metaphor for the frustration the US military faces in these asymmetrical wars against a determined but shadowy enemy....after nearly eleven years of foolishly trying to subdue the Afghani people and remake them, into our own image, our soldiers are getting burnt out...indeed, the entire nation has had about enough of these unending Holy Wars.

But we have many miles to go, before we war-weary Americans can rest, the state of Israel has big plans for the US armed forces....and we ain't seen nuthin' yet....this country has not begun to suffer what is in store for us....all these wars at Israel's behest is destroying what respect we once had in the international arena...Uncle Sam has been reduced to being Israel's bitch.

Again, here's the listing of the Congress members and the bribes they have accepted from the Israelis:

http://maplight.org/us-congress/interest/J5100/view/all

By: Loner on 3/19/12 at 5:52

And before Govskeptic or anyone else accuses me of being obsessed with the US-Israel special relationship, let me simply say that the US would not be in Afghanistan if it were not for the 9-11 attacks...and Bin Laden himself said that he attacked the Twin Towers and Washington, DC because of US support for Israeli oppression against the Palestinians.

Holy Wars Suck.

By: dargent7 on 3/19/12 at 6:09

The USA will never turn Bales over to the Afghans. They would kill him on the spot, cut his hands, feet and head off, and drag his corpse thru the streets. Then hang him from the nearest bridge.
We wasted all 10 years there.

By: gdiafante on 3/19/12 at 6:23

...and Bin Laden himself said that he attacked the Twin Towers and Washington, DC because of US support for Israeli oppression against the Palestinians.

How trustworthy is a psychopath? He also said that virgins awaited the martyrs while he hid in a cave. Excuse me if I don't take Bin Laden at his word.

By: Loner on 3/19/12 at 6:32

Uh...OK, Gd...please tell us why Bin Laden would lie about that? Tell us, what really motivated Bin Laden and his men?

By: Loner on 3/19/12 at 6:39

The running totals on the 2 Holy Wars that Bush-Cheney started are over 1.3 trillion dollars...here's the website that monitors the waste:

http://costofwar.com/en/

Watch those figures roll by, like an odometer on a crotch-rocket.....incredible....and our Nobel Peace Prize Prez is powerless to stop it.....we're riding a crotch-rocket to hell and there's nobody at the handlebars.

By: gdiafante on 3/19/12 at 6:45

...why Bin Laden would lie about that?

Why indeed.

Sorry Loner, I'm not in the business of rationalizing the thoughts of the criminally insane. I'd suggest consulting with a psychologist, maybe some of his terrorist buddies or, if you really want his inner thoughts, talk to his wives.

By: Loner on 3/19/12 at 6:47

On another tangent...over the weekend, Santorum pledged to crack down on crack...no, not the dope kind...the crotch kind...he's gonna target the porno industry, once elected as POTUS.....better start downloading and storing those files now, while we can, Darge.

By: gdiafante on 3/19/12 at 6:55

Let's see...unemployment...record deficits...skyrocketing health care costs...plummeting real estate...let's declare war on...porn.

Santorum certainly has his priorities straight...

By: Loner on 3/19/12 at 6:59

Gd, there ignored or downplayed the significance of the US relationship with Israel in determining the who, what, when , how and why of the 9-11 attacks. The media told us that Al Qaeda hated us because our women do not cover themselves like Arab women, that we drink alcohol, smoke tobacco, do drugs, tolerate homosexuality and rock & roll.

Bin Laden's stated reasons were not front-page news....the front-page news at the time was all about getting revenge....the drums of war drowned out the voice of the confessed perpetrator...the Zionist-owned US media spun the story to fit the neocon agenda....just as Helen Thomas told us.

Don't get me wrong, I am not defending Al Qaeda or Bin Laden, I'm just pointing out their primary casus bellum...their primary cause for war.

It's a testimony to the power of the major US media and the Israel lobby that most Americans still do not know why Bin Laden attacked on 9-11....they may never know.

By: Loner on 3/19/12 at 7:04

Typo: "They ignored", not "there ignored" first sentence in my 6:59 post...I wish they had an edit function here...sorry 'bout that.

By: Loner on 3/19/12 at 7:09

No porn, no contraceptives, no right to choose and no Darwin in the classroom.....yeah, Santorum's on the right track....riding the rails on a crazy train to oblivion....or Armageddon.....it's out of our control....Bibi stole the handle, and the train, she won't stop rollin', no she won't slow down.

By: gdiafante on 3/19/12 at 7:14

I honestly don't know, Loner. Having served in the first Desert Storm, I've heard stories about his being offended that American boots were on the ground in Saudi, and that was the reason. I've also heard that he held a grudge because of the U.S. abandoning Afghanistan after the Russians pulled out in the 80's.

Personally, I don't really care what the reasons were, nothing justified 9/11.

By: Loner on 3/19/12 at 7:14

If we elect Richard Santorum as President of the USA, they only un-confiscated dildos in the country will be in the White House.

By: Loner on 3/19/12 at 7:31

Gd: Those other reasons, which you mentioned, were also announced by Bin Laden and the US media did reiterate those for public consumption...but the part about US support for Israel's aggression, against the Pals, the Lebanese, the Syrians etc. was conveniently omitted...that was and remains Al Qaeda's primary motivator.

I think that we should try to understand why so many millions of Muslims hate us. They might have a legitimate point or two.

I agree, nothing justified the 9-11 attacks...I never claimed that anything could justify that horrific atrocity.... I do not want to see it happen again, we need to address the fundamentals.

And thank you, Gd, for your service... I truly mean that...I'm also a vet.

By: yogiman on 3/19/12 at 7:36

Loner,

If it boils down to Santorum and Obama, and you choose Obama over Santorum, are you saying you will continue to support an illegal candidate, whom you know nothing about, as the nation's President?

If, after 4 years in office, the man continues to refuse to identify himself, the people who vote for him will get what they deserve. Their ignorance will be used against them.

By: gdiafante on 3/19/12 at 7:43

I think they resent us because we are who we are. We're free, (somewhat) tolerant, and very likely to stick our nose somewhere it doesn't belong. That's a good recipe for resentment and/or hostility.

I think that as technology improves, our image may be improving among the younger Muslims over there, but the Afghanistan fiasco doesn't help.

By: Loner on 3/19/12 at 7:45

I do not really give a rat's @ss at this point about the circumstances of President Obama's birth....few rational, people with a normal IQ are still questioning Obama's basic eligibility to be the POTUS.

To me, it's like at a wedding, those who had something on Obama's eligibility should have spoken out before the wedding vows were spoken...you know, "speak now, or forever hold your peace"..as the saying goes. The Republicans did not officially object at the appropriate time....neither did the major media.

The deal is legit, Yogi...move beyond it.

By: yogiman on 3/19/12 at 7:51

Sorry, Loner,

I can't buy illegality as legit. If you are operating illegally, you are still illegal. This is currently a much deeper situation than you are imagining.

By: Loner on 3/19/12 at 7:53

I do not believe that a great number of non-Americans, especially Arabs and Muslims, hate us because of our freedoms...they long for them...the "Arab Spring" says something about that, doesn't it?

We do stick our nose into other people's business...at home and abroad...that's the special interests influence on US foreign policy....remember, the War Lobby is a tripartite consortium of like-minded special interests: Defense, Israel & Energy (DIE).

Those who advocate for peace cannot confront and fight two out of the three special interests...you go after all three positions, or you are wasting your time, tools, treasure and talent.

By: gdiafante on 3/19/12 at 7:54

Loner, his mind can't comprehend such things as an African-American with a funny name being President. That's really the only issue.

Yogi's an archaic embarrassment of an earlier generation that just needs to go away.

By: Loner on 3/19/12 at 7:56

Yogi, I'm no doctor, but I think that you are more deeply disturbed than you are imagining...you are obsessed with Obama's birth details...that's not sane, my man...that's ridiculous.

Any second opinions on Yogi's mental health status?

By: gdiafante on 3/19/12 at 7:57

Loner, I meant the ruling class of those Muslim nations are the ones who resent us. But, the longer we stay in Afghanistan, the more likely it is that the younger generations start to resent us as well.

By: Loner on 3/19/12 at 7:57

I see, Gd has registered his diagnosis....I concur....Darge?

By: gdiafante on 3/19/12 at 7:58

In my professional opinion, after studying the evidence, he's nuttier than a fruitcake.

By: yogiman on 3/19/12 at 8:03

Back to the original question of NCP: Sgt. Bales should be court marshaled, but we don't know yet if he will be, or if he will be turned over to Afghanistan. With the government we have today you don't know how they're thinking on foreign affairs.

I believe I read where Bales had in been on tour 4 times. How much do they think a man can take before he breaks down? In WWII they were usually sent in one or two times. Is combat mentally easier today than back then?

By: Loner on 3/19/12 at 8:06

Gd: The Oil-fired monarchies of the Middle East like our American money....but they do not like the way we Americans speak out against our own government, if we so choose....they like royal family rule (much like the Bushites here), they do not like our free elections and our Bill of Rights....they just want us to pay the fuel bills...forget the bill of rights....they don't need no steenking elections.

Many of these Oil-fired monarchies now have largely ornamental "parliaments"....to make it look good....the royals still call the shots....but the Holymen may change all that....the Arab Spring could actually be an Indian Summer....Winter could be dead ahead.

By: Loner on 3/19/12 at 8:10

Nuttier than a fruitcake and just as stale...again, I concur.

By: gdiafante on 3/19/12 at 8:11

Is combat mentally easier today than back then?

See...a fundamental lack of comprehension regarding the topic at hand. Yogi cites WWII, a war that lasted (U.S. participation) three or so years, where there was a draft and a score of voluntary enlistments to a war that has lasted a decade, coincided with another (failed) campaign that has stretched the military dangerously thin and required multiple tours.

This omits things like WWII's clear and consise mission, sound strategy and support and considerable alliances. All of which, you could argue, are lacking in Afghanistan.

It's a complex situation, which is why yogi has no clue.

By: Loner on 3/19/12 at 8:14

Bales will never be turned over to the Afghanis...Obama would probably be shot by his own generals if he did that...or stabbed, Julius Caesar style in the Senate.

Obama is a savvy politician; he knows what to do.

By: gdiafante on 3/19/12 at 8:17

No, I agree, Loner. Bales won't be turned over, nor should he be. He'll likely spend a significant chunk of his life behind bars, but the alternative in Afghanistan is a very public and painful death.

By: Loner on 3/19/12 at 8:18

Can you imagine what Afghani President Karzai has in his emergency Grab-n-Go bag? He's got two tickets to Paradise...he can leave tonight.

When will we ever learn?

By: yogiman on 3/19/12 at 8:24

Gentlemen (as I use the term loosely),

I agree, I disagree with you. I want a president in that office who is in there legally. And gdiafante, I know you don't know me. If you did, your feeble mind would know I don't care what the man's name is or his race. My only concern is the man sitting in that office be in there according to the Constitution our founders wrote for us. For you and your fellow posters to say it doesn't make any difference that we don't even know who the guys is tells a sad tail on what the USA has turned out to be.

I bet our founders would turn over in there graves if they could see what they left here on this earth.

And I'm nuttier than a fruit cake, gdiafante? To see someone nuttier than a fruit cake, Look in the mirror, young man. And you might look in that mirror beside him, Loner.

By: Loner on 3/19/12 at 8:26

Bales should not be turned over to the Afghanis...we need to declare early victory and bail....why wait until 2014...look at that expense clock website that I cited earlier...should we put in another 500 billion or so? Another Trillion or so?

Screw the place...bring the forces home....keep an eye on the infamous hell-hole using satellites and drones...why stress our US ground forces needlessly?

If that means abandoning the women and children of Afghanistan to Taliban thugs, so be it...let the mothers do it on their own...we gotta butt out....the more we hit them, the more fundamentalist the men become.

By: Loner on 3/19/12 at 8:33

OK, I'm trying it...I have a magic mirror beside my crystal balls...."Mirror, mirror, on the wall...who is the nuttiest fruitcake of them all?"

The magic mirror says that Yogi the Bear likes nuts & Barrys....but Boo Boo is nuttier, because he follows Yogi...Boo Boo (AKA: Rasputin) is his loyal sidekick.

Boo Boo....wherefore art thou, Boo Boo?

By: govskeptic on 3/19/12 at 8:41

Since the subject of the day is going off the deep end, I've noted that
our sometimes Poster Loner is certainly reducing his chances of
being invited to the White House by President Obama for a big
event. That event being the presentation of America's highest
civilian honor. The Medal of Freedom to Shimon Peres of Israel!

By: Loner on 3/19/12 at 8:51

I don't need no steenking invitation to no steenking White House Up-sucking Ball....I can't dance very well, but I do have my own tux and patent leather shoes ready...in my Grab-n-Go bag....along with a designer classic black do-rag with matching tie and pocket trim...sets off the tux and the silver beard and ponytail.

Look for the Lone One on national TV, if and when the GOP contenders come to town...I'm going to attend the rally and try to put a couple of questions to them....I may need to wear the tux etc. to impersonate a one-percenter...just to get in....or, I may just pass out copies of my questions to the one-percenters going in...let them read them and let one of them ask the questions....I would miss the spotlight, but the mission would be accomplished, no?

By: yogiman on 3/19/12 at 8:52

What did you use on the back of that glass to make that [call it a] mirror, Loner, glossy black paint?

By: Loner on 3/19/12 at 8:54

BTW, this is St. Joseph's Feast Day...I took my NYS DMV road test on this date in 1964...I prayed to St. Joe...I lit a candle at his altar in my church...I passed the first time!

I'm still giving him the credit....now call me an atheist....the candle still burns.

By: dargent7 on 3/19/12 at 9:00

My total knowlege of Islam and the Muslim faith started, and STOPPED, on 9/11.
These guys, ALL men, cannot wait to get to Al'lah and their 72 virgins. Seems blowing themselve up, head included, taking as many women and children, is their M.O.
They view martydom as a bage of honor and access to the Express Lane.
Their culture goes back to Mesopatomia and Ghengis Kahn. We're talking 5th, maybe 11th Century mind sets.
Rather, whether al-Queda, the Taliban, they all "take responsibility" for destroying anything of value, worldwide.
The United States cannot re-build the Middle East.
At least not in our own image.

By: Loner on 3/19/12 at 9:02

Oh no, the magic mirror is stock, right out of the box...unaltered....no hopped-up gimmicky mirror...no, this is legit....bona fide, authorized, authenticated and verified....hey, I don't lie or exaggerate on these online boards...strictly on the up and up here....the mirror claims that Yogi digs nuts and Barrys...but his diminutive ursine sidekick is nuttier.

By: BenDover on 3/19/12 at 9:02

gd / loner.

"If you live in a country where you’re never required to take responsibility for yourself, where you never even have to ask whether there’s something you should be doing to solve your own problems, then people are kept in a kind of a permanent state of collective immaturity and it becomes quite easy for them to believe that someone else's success is the cause of their distress. "

Bill Clinton ( http://www.salon.com/2001/11/10/speech_9/ )

Bill nailed it here. When you've got a bunch of crazy dictators who don't want to take responsibility for the sh*t holes their tyranny have birthed they stand around and point to Israel or America or Western Europe and say, "see those people doing so well... they are the reason for your plight! It is their excess that has led to your destitution!". It's a false zero sum mentality that plays on human envy and couldn't be further from the truth because if Western benevolence we able to pierce these dictators iron bubbles their people would most certainly benefit from the fruits of the modern world.

By: BenDover on 3/19/12 at 9:08

But what can you do 12,000 miles away when 1/2 the political energy spent in our own country wants to do the same damn thing to America?

By: Loner on 3/19/12 at 9:10

I agree, Darge, the Muslim Jihadists go back to the darker ages...they started out in the seventh century as a warrior religion...the Great Crusades occurred in the 11th, 12th and 13th centuries....then things scabbed over in the Holy Land for a few centuries...the scab was picked on May 15, 1948....blood has flowed out of that wound ever since...it's bleeding us dry...we survive on transfusions of borrowed cash....and the blood of virtuous volunteers for the sacred cause....these are the Great Theocratic Wars of the 20th & 21st centuries....the second coming of the great crusades in the Holy Land.....same old stuff, only now it's nuclear-tipped.

By: Loner on 3/19/12 at 9:25

Ah, Ben ...so it's Class Envy... for what Europeans, Israelis and Americans have that motivated the 9-11 plotters and perps? That and the two items that Gd mentioned are the commonly accepted canards concerning Muslim animosity towards Israel, the US and Europe. I've heard that class envy stuff before, Ben....that's the conventional wisdom....IMO, it's media-generated mass hysteria.

Conspicuously absent in the list of reasons why Muslims hate us is any mention of US support for Israeli oppression and Israeli aggression....oh no, that's a forbidden concept in the US media...wouldn't be good for the "special relationship"....they ignore or downplay the primary reason for the hate.

Helen Thomas shed some light on why this is so.

And the Israel lobby tamps down any such talk in Congress...they use cash to influence our elected officials....our leaders ignore the ugly facts....they repeat the Israeli talking points.

But those brave Americans who point these things out are called "bigots", "anti--Semites", "terrorist sympathizers" etc.

As I said, this is mass hysteria.

By: Loner on 3/19/12 at 9:31

In case of boredom, this WaPo board is not too busy and the topic is relevant:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/romney-santorum-struggling-to-arouse-consistent-passion-in-their-own-voters-exit-polls-show/2012/03/19/gIQAp0VEMS_allComments.html?ctab=all_&#weighIn

They talk about "intensity of support" issues in this race....an apathy gap?

By: BenDover on 3/19/12 at 9:35

Who am I to argue with Bill, loner?

By: Loner on 3/19/12 at 9:40

Who is more apathetic...less enthused...less intensely supportive and less passionate? Romney's base, Santorum's base or Obama's base? Lots of folks across the spectrum are disappointed and frustrated.

Factor in the idea that the popular vote is absolutely meaningless and people now realize that and also we might factor in the voter-ID voter-depression drives and we must factor in the novel effects of the Super-PACs.....yeah, voter turn-out could be lower than normal....apathy is setting in.

By: Loner on 3/19/12 at 9:41

You ain't Jack, Ben...Bill's da man!

By: Loner on 3/19/12 at 9:48

Today is another Protest Monday...like a blinking beacon of hope, the Lone One mans his old signage every Monday, 3-4 on the County Courthouse sidewalks....last week, a claimed Afghanistan War vet, a young white guy, pulled up and asked me if I thought that the war in Afghanistan was a Holy War...I relied that, IMO, it was...he yelled, "F*ck you!!", his woman-passenger flipped me off and they tried to lay a patch of rubber.

If I get wasted, start with those clues.

Looks like it's warm... but it may rain today....any day is a good day to protest, IMO.