Up for Debate: Snowden's slip

Tuesday, June 25, 2013 at 1:15am

Edward Snowden has apparently slipped out of Hong Kong to Russia and is possibly on his way to Ecuador for asylum. Do you feel officials in Hong Kong and Russia have aided Snowden, and if so, do you believe they have reason to do so? What do you feel is more important at this juncture: the U.S. capturing someone it's deemed is a fugitive or for that person — Snowden — to receive refugee status in another country, at least for the time being and in hope of a fair trial?

Filed under: City Voices
Tagged: Up for Debate

50 Comments on this post:

By: ancienthighway on 6/25/13 at 4:24

The Whistleblower Protection Act is supposed to protect people like Snowden who reveal misconduct by government agencies. Unfortunately, the mechanism in place to hear the cases is strongly biased in favor of the government. The government has already trumped up the charges with treason and espionage placed on the table.

According to the Constitution, which only defines one crime, treason, "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort." It would be a stretch to apply this definition of treason to Snowden. But I'm sure the government will find a way.

Was it espionage or whistleblowing. Snowden's act meets the definition of both, so it's up to the courts to decide. Something tells me a fair trial would not be the case. So Snowden ran, and I can't say that I blame him. The story has quickly gone from government spying on citizens to the chase to capture Snowden. Curious.

As far as China and Russia aiding Snowden, I'm sure they have. After all, the US has just accused both of some fairly major cyber espionage against the USA. And to get this breaking story about the US spying on it's citizens? Major points!

By: Libertine on 6/25/13 at 4:51

I wonder if Snowden has moved to the top of Obama's secret kill list of people targeted for political assassination?

http://rt.com/usa/obama-moves-to-keep-kill-list-memos-secret-forever-224/

By: Captain Nemo on 6/25/13 at 5:26

Snowden is hiding out in Communist countries, China and now Russia. Both of which would love to get their hand on US secrets. Is this the act of an American hero or an American traitor?

By: Libertine on 6/25/13 at 5:33

I am glad that Snowden shed light on these unconstitutional attacks on our personal privacy and civil liberties. I don't know where else he could hide out? President Obama personally maintains a kill list of folks marked for assassination that contains some American citizens.

By: yogiman on 6/25/13 at 5:37

I imagine Snowden didn't give any information to foreign countries they didn't already have. Barry just doesn't want us US citizens to know them.

By: yogiman on 6/25/13 at 5:40

dumba$$,

Would you want to 'hide' in a country that you knew would kill you for giving bad information on them? Snowden is probably on the top of Barry's list now.

By: Captain Nemo on 6/25/13 at 6:03

Yes comrade yogi. We know you would like to see him fail and the country too.

By: yogiman on 6/25/13 at 6:12

Wrong, bumba$$,,
Unlike you, I'd like to the the old model of the USA again in my lifespan. I don't want to see this country fail which is happening with your buddy Barry in office.

And yes, dumba$$, your buddy Barry is in that office illegally. When was the constitution changed giving a foreigner the right to become president?

Question, dumba$$: When did Barry become an American citizen after he became an Indonesian citizen? I sure like to know and I'm sure you think you have the correct answer.

By: bfra on 6/25/13 at 6:13

I don't agree with Libertine on this issue, but they at least have sense enough to know who the President of the US is & address him by his name.

By: bfra on 6/25/13 at 6:15

7:12AM More Hogwash & LIES

By: Captain Nemo on 6/25/13 at 6:15

It is so amusing that you right-wingers were so gun-ho for the Patriot Act, even after people on the left warn against such a move. Yet here you are whining and blaming Obama, for your stupidity. Even you hero thinks he is a traitor.

Dick Cheney: Edward Snowden a 'traitor' who likely spied for China (+video)

www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/2013/0616/Dick-Cheney-Edward-Snowden-a-traitor-who-likely-spied-for-China-video

By: Captain Nemo on 6/25/13 at 6:18

Keep squawking Comrade yogi, your days are numbered.

By: yogiman on 6/25/13 at 6:33

I hate to give this to your feeble mind, bfra, but we do not have a president in office now. We have a usurper in office.

So if I'm lying, how about explaining how he became a natural born American citizen after his Indonesian citizenship. Hell, did he even become an American citizen. I don't know because he refuses to show he is. Do you know? Where did you get your information that we common citizens can't get.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 6/25/13 at 7:10

Here's some food for thought.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/174962/meet-press-pundit-financial-ties-nsa-misleadingly-slams-snowden#ixzz2XAs29bA3

Murphy himself has a stake in this debate that arguably ought to have been disclosed. Though Murphy was introduced only as a “Republican strategist,” he is also the founding partner of Navigators Global, a lobbying firm that represents one of the NSA’s largest contractors. Disclosures show that Navigators Global represents Computer Sciences Corp. (CSC) on issues before Congress. For at least a decade, CSC has won major contracts from the National Security Agency (NSA). Murphy’s firm has lobbied on behalf of CSC for bills that would expand the NSA’s reach, including the Cyber Intelligence Sharing and Protection Act or CISPA, which passed the House of Representatives earlier this year. As the Center for Democracy and Technology noted, the “legislation is being billed as an expansion of a collaboration between the National Security Agency (NSA) and major ISPs dubbed the Defense Industrial Base Pilot.”

As Americans continue to debate the revelations raised by Snowden, few lawmakers have raised the potential for abuse when powerful spy technology is outsourced to private contractors.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 6/25/13 at 7:13

So, Murphy - who is a lobbyist who fought for the contract for the firm who hired Snowden, is yelling for Snowden to be prosecuted. Yet he wants to keep quiet his blame in not thoroughly vetting the people that the contractors hire who have access to high security info. Interesting.

By: Captain Nemo on 6/25/13 at 7:22

Thanks for the link Blanket, but it will go on deaf ears. The right can not except that something they wanted and said was for the good of America has come home. They can not except that their zest for revenge has cost them their so-called freedom. They just want to blame Obama and the Democrats for their blunders.

By: Captain Nemo on 6/25/13 at 7:25

Comrade, yogi is still at work to undermine the US by his lies. Your days are number, yogi.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 6/25/13 at 7:26

Of course, Nemo.

By: Libertine on 6/25/13 at 7:45

By: bfra on 6/25/13 at 7:13

"I don't agree with Libertine on this issue, but they at least have sense enough to know who the President of the US is & address him by his name."

You don't think that it is a good thing that show that the NSA reads our emails, texts, and listens to our calls without warrants? You think that it is better for that type of unconstitutional behavior should remain a secret of the Obama Administration?

By: Libertine on 6/25/13 at 7:48

By: Captain Nemo on 6/25/13 at 8:22

"Thanks for the link Blanket, but it will go on deaf ears. The right can not except that something they wanted and said was for the good of America has come home. They can not except that their zest for revenge has cost them their so-called freedom. They just want to blame Obama and the Democrats for their blunders."

So you condemned these activities by the GWB Administration, but are cool with the expansion of programs that deny our privacy under the Obama Administration?

By: Captain Nemo on 6/25/13 at 7:56

Libertine it was a fact I had to face, when the links of people like you let it happen. Now you want to blame me. I just pointed out the fringe right flights of fancy.

By: Captain Nemo on 6/25/13 at 7:57

shb likes not links

By: Blanketnazi2 on 6/25/13 at 7:58

Libertine, I'm not cool with it at all but I'm amazed at the conservatives who voted for it and was fine with it until the Obama administration.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 6/25/13 at 7:58

Expansion? No.....these things were happening under Bush/Cheney as well.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 6/25/13 at 8:02

So When Will Dick Cheney Be Charged With Espionage?

http://readersupportednews.org/So-When-Will-Dick-Cheney-Be-Charged-With-Espionage.htm

By: Libertine on 6/25/13 at 8:09

I have never supported it.

These programs expired and were extended by the Democrats who controlled the Senate and signed into law by President Obama.

Yes, there has been an expansion of the abuses by the Obama Administration. Snowden provided evidence that the Obama Administration is collecting phone and internet records of all Americans and the NSA routinely reads the communications of American citizens without a warrant at the discretion of individuals, like Snowden.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/27/patriot-act-extension-signed-obama-autopen_n_867851.html

Patriot Act Extension Signed By Obama
First Posted: 05/27/11

"But the ACLU also points out that court approvals for business record access jumped from 21 in 2009 to 96 last year, and the organization contends the Patriot Act has blurred the line between investigations of actual terrorists and those not suspected of doing anything wrong."

By: Blanketnazi2 on 6/25/13 at 8:14

Libertine, I don't have time right now to show the links that this was going on prior to that - maybe I'll have time to post them later this afternoon. However, once Pandora's box is open it's hard to close, isn't it? And the biggest support came from the tea party members in the House.

By: budlight on 6/25/13 at 8:28

Snowden is a White House smoke screen to cover up the real news:

Remember, the Schumer-Rubio Amnesty bill, S.744:

Grants amnesty to 11 million illegal aliens with only promises of future enforcement
Increases unemployment and decreases wages for American workers, according to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office
Leaves total discretion for future enforcement in the hands of the administration, repeating the mistakes of the 1986 amnesty

Call Corkers and Alexander's office and tell them NO WAY:
Alexander (R-TN) 888-995-2018 Corker (R-TN) 888-995-5271

By: bfra on 6/25/13 at 8:35

If Snowden did no wrong, why is he running? He is a slimey traitor, any way you want to paint it.

By: bfra on 6/25/13 at 8:40

Libertine - When did the Patriot Act expire? It Didn't!

answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071212144606AAzRAE5

By: Libertine on 6/25/13 at 8:42

By: Captain Nemo on 6/25/13 at 8:56

"Libertine it was a fact I had to face, when the links of people like you let it happen. Now you want to blame me. I just pointed out the fringe right flights of fancy."

I don't blame you for this unconstitutional activity Nemo. If you have always been opposed I don't understand why you seem to be cool with it now and defending the actions of the Obama Administration?

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57589495-38/nsa-spying-flap-extends-to-contents-of-u.s-phone-calls/

" The National Security Agency has acknowledged in a new classified briefing that it does not need court authorization to listen to domestic phone calls, a participant in the briefing said.

Rep. Jerrold Nadler, a New York Democrat, disclosed on Thursday that during a secret briefing to members of Congress, he was told that the contents of a phone call could be accessed "simply based on an analyst deciding that."

If the NSA wants "to listen to the phone," an analyst's decision is sufficient, without any other legal authorization required, Nadler said he learned. "I was rather startled," said Nadler, an attorney and congressman who serves on the House Judiciary committee.

Not only does this disclosure shed more light on how the NSA's formidable eavesdropping apparatus works domestically, it also suggests the Justice Department has secretly interpreted federal surveillance law to permit thousands of low-ranking analysts to eavesdrop on phone calls. "

By: Libertine on 6/25/13 at 8:53

bfra on 6/25/13 at 9:40

"Libertine - When did the Patriot Act expire? It Didn't!

answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071212144606AAzRAE5"

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/03/07/patriot.act/

The Patriot Act was scheduled to expire in 2006, but the Democrats who controlled both houses of Congress sent GWB over a bill to sign that prevented it's expiration.

The wire-tapping provisions would have expired in 2011 had Obama not got another extension.

I don't understand what point you are trying to make?

By: bfra on 6/25/13 at 9:35

"If Snowden did no wrong, why is he running? He is a slimey traitor, any way you want to paint it."

Maybe Snowden is a slimey traitor, but I am glad the NSA documents that prove violations of our constitutional rights came out, how about you?

I believe that the NSA should be required to get a warrant from a public court in order to read my emails, texts, view my web activity or listen to my phone conversations, how about you?

By: Blanketnazi2 on 6/25/13 at 8:59

Maybe Snowden is a slimy traitor - however it does bring to light the overstepping of the NSA and will hopefully unite both parties to do away with the Patriot Act once and for all.

By: bfra on 6/25/13 at 9:07

Libertine - Just answering your earlier comment about it expiring.

Blanket - I have mixed opinions! Myself, I could care less if they spy on me, I have nothing to hide. If more spying or snooping had been done before 9/11, could that have been prevented? Could all the lies Bush/Chaney told to start a war in Iraq, have been prevented? Just a lot of what ifs!

By: Blanketnazi2 on 6/25/13 at 9:14

bfra, there was plenty of intelligence info about Osama bin Laden prior to 9/11 - it just wasn't acted upon. I understand your statement about if you're not doing anything wrong then why worry - but that is a very slippery slope. Also, what if our government decided to quell dissent by incarcerating people and using their phone calls against them and calling them enemies? I don't want to go there.

By: bfra on 6/25/13 at 9:21

If they had been spying on the right people, before 9/11 & after, seems Bush/Chaney would have really been in "hot water". LOL, but not really.

By: bfra on 6/25/13 at 9:22

That "not really" is for the LOL!

By: JohnGalt on 6/25/13 at 10:50

The phone lines are jammed to Corker and Lamar ! 's offices.

By: budlight on 6/25/13 at 11:10

JohnGalt, I got through and the person on the phone sort of acted like "you're bothering me".

Our elected officials have annointed themselves.

By: pswindle on 6/25/13 at 12:05

There are a lot of Americans that want to kill this President and also harm our country. It is imperial that our country stay on top of this issue. We have to know what is going on. If you would listen to what is being said. NSA does not listen or read personal phone calls or emails, but whom does the phone calls and emails go to out of this country and known criminals inside the US. We now know that we will have to monitor the NSA. Showden said that he got the job for this one issue and that is to collect info that he could use against the US. Greenwald of the Guardian is in it up to his neck. When the case is broken wide-open there will be plenty of individuals involved. There are so many people that hate this black President, that they would bring down the country to get him. Showden is not smart enough to do what he has done, he has taken instructions from one or more. He will be brought to justice. Poor, thing knows it. He can't hide forever.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 6/25/13 at 12:08

pswindle, I agree that Snowden is in over his head and is a puppet to higher powers.

By: Captain Nemo on 6/25/13 at 12:51

Well bud you are a big bother.

By: dargent7 on 6/25/13 at 1:09

Just read in the San Diego U-T Snowden didn't board that plane.
He's being helped by the Wikileaks guy. May seek asylum in Iceland (I hear It's nice this time of year). Still has 200 'sensitive" documents according to Sen. Diane Feinstein.
I say, "Good for you!"

By: dargent7 on 6/25/13 at 1:24

As the Wikileaks guy, Asuage did before him, and that private 1st Class soldier did, Snowden is just another in what will be a long list of whistle-blowers.
The USA is being exposed for it's hypocracy So, what? We still rule the world.
Nothing compares to two idiots/ scum bags + another 5 as!holes who coluded, conspired, conived, and then invaded a sovreign country: Iraq. Hung it's dictator. The only reason we didn't kill Jun Il and Hugo Chavez is because they died before we could kill them.
Rivals Vietnam in sheer dispicableness. And we build a "Library" for this moron, GW Bush? And his father, too? Both had hard- ons for Saddam and the Mid-East....but not Saudi Arabia. Pathetic.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 6/25/13 at 1:42

Wouldn't you know.....I guess the tea party groups were not being soley targeted after all.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/24/politics/irs-targeting/index.html?hpt=hp_bn3

IRS targeting included liberal groups

By: ancienthighway on 6/25/13 at 2:01

No doubt another lie by the Obama administration to cover up the truth. Just ask any tea partier or yogi.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 6/25/13 at 2:55

No doubt, ancienthighway. ;~)

By: yogiman on 6/25/13 at 7:12

What caused Bob Corker to change his mind? He said: "We need a new immigration policy that reflects America's values. First, secure this border. Allow people to work here but must go home and return through legal channels."

He then sponsored an amendment to the immigration bill in the illegal aliens' favor. It's hard to tell, Is he for or against illegal aliens being welcomed here.

Why doesn't congress just want to make illegal aliens go back home?

By: Libertine on 6/25/13 at 8:42

By: ancienthighway on 6/25/13 at 3:01

No doubt another lie by the Obama administration to cover up the truth. Just ask any tea partier or yogi.

Who should we believe Obama or the NSA? The NSA says that they are listening to our phone calls and don't need a warrant. Obama says that no one is listening to our phone calls or reading our emails. Obama also said that Solyndra was funded by Republicans and that Fast and Furious was a Bush program. How can we believe Obama with a history of telling lie after lie?

Jun 7, 2013 1:19pm

SAN JOSE, Calif. —" President Obama today dismissed the “hype” surrounding his administration’s secret surveillance of Americans’ phone records and the nation’s Internet activity and defended the programs as key to protecting national security.

“Nobody is listening to your telephone calls,” the president told reporters in his first public comments since the programs were disclosed."

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/06/obama-nobody-is-listening-to-your-phone-calls/

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57589495-38/nsa-spying-flap-extends-to-contents-of-u.s-phone-calls/

he National Security Agency has acknowledged in a new classified briefing that it does not need court authorization to listen to domestic phone calls, a participant in the briefing said.

Rep. Jerrold Nadler, a New York Democrat, disclosed on Thursday that during a secret briefing to members of Congress, he was told that the contents of a phone call could be accessed "simply based on an analyst deciding that."

By: Libertine on 6/26/13 at 5:51

Obama did directly lie about the NSA spying program. I don't know why you would expect anything but lies from Obama, he has been caught lying about everything. He lied about Benghazi, about his jobs record, about Solyndra being a Republican program, about Fast and Furious being a GWB program, about Obamacare reducing the cost of health care and premiums, he is a chronic liar.