Up for Debate: Supreme Court considers ObamaCare

Thursday, March 29, 2012 at 2:45am

What do you make of the prospect that the U.S. Supreme Court could severely undercut ObamaCare?

Filed under: City Voices
Tagged: Up for Debate

147 Comments on this post:

By: slacker on 3/29/12 at 10:42

Who's the biggest humanitarian.. Rasp or James Brown?

By: BenDover on 3/29/12 at 10:49

The employer's bulk buying capacity and shopping around are where the competition comes in gd. For the most part it's a greatly subsidized benefit that is higher in quality than most people could afford on their own.

Taking all cost out of the hands of the patient, though, has been very inflationary for medical costs... as is the 50%+ of people who default on their medical bills and put that cost onto everyone else. Medicare is pushing the edge on their ability to throw their weight around and force medical providers to work at a loss and that cost is shifted onto the paying public.

Many hands make light work... the obvious corollary to that is also true.

By: Loner on 3/29/12 at 10:55

The Rasp is stroking us...again...shaping the conversation....sawdust on the floor...I love that Mad Monk.

By: slacker on 3/29/12 at 11:00

Chairman Loner, you'll have to enroll Rasp in your re-education gulag, if Obama is re-elected.

By: gdiafante on 3/29/12 at 11:02

So consumers being at the mercy of the employer and insurance carrier is what you would call a competitive market? Yet that is who you also say should bear the brunt of the costs.

No wonder most Americans are crying foul about this system...huh?

By: Loner on 3/29/12 at 11:11

Slack...you mean Kamp Loner? Yes, The Rasp is trainable, IMO...he'll make a good kapo and he'll lead the others in song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jKf7cI-9oE

Kum-Ba-Yah...yes, we can use The Rasp....as Choirmaster @ Kamp Loner.

Once Obama goes full commie, in November, my Commission and Charter will be pole-vaulting over all that red-tape...I may set up the first Kamp in the Sunny Florida Keys....security should be relatively easy to maintain there...saving big bucks right off the bat.

As I said, nightly Kampfires and drum circles...we work the Medical Marijuana communal farm by day...party all night long....a few weeks of that and the patients will be in a docile mood....for those who cannot transition, we will offer the self-euthanizing option.

By: BigPapa on 3/29/12 at 11:16

Loner
I'm saying that those countries can agree on something as big and as expensive as this because they are more closely of one mind on the issue. They may accept very high taxes as a consequence of having such extraordinary benefits.

By: slacker on 3/29/12 at 11:23

Loner, I can visualize Kamp Loner. You with the beret, monocle, jack boots, little red book in hand, brainwashing BenDover. He won't break easy, you'll have to bring in the Manchurian muscle.

By: gdiafante on 3/29/12 at 11:23

...because they are more closely of one mind on the issue.

Which is the complete opposite of America on any issue. That's part of the problem.

By: Loner on 3/29/12 at 11:24

Perhaps, Big Papa....maybe other nations can agree on the public good questions, because they do not let the special interests purchase their lawmakers, as we do in the USA...with the advent of these Super-PACs, finding a compromise that best benefits the general public will be impossible, IMO...I hope to be proven wrong on that.

Without genuine campaign finance reform, we are just spinnin' our wheels, folks...digging a deep rut and going nowhere fast.

By: Loner on 3/29/12 at 11:27

You got it, Slacker...with Dover...the normal methods will not prove effective...we will use the honey-pot method of persuasion to our way of thinking...young hippie chicks will find the chinks in his armor quickly....off with the cod-piece!

By: BigPapa on 3/29/12 at 11:34

"...because they are more closely of one mind on the issue.
Which is the complete opposite of America on any issue. That's part of the problem."

You could also argue that's what keeps us from having wild swings in policy and politics. So it's it's on slightly dysfunctional way, it's a strength.

By: gdiafante on 3/29/12 at 11:40

Normally, I'd say that would be the case, Papa, but not now. Compromise and Bipartisanship have become dirty words. Now, the only policy is my way or the highway.

The problem of faction that Washington warned the country of in his farewell address is finally coming to fruition.

By: yogiman on 3/29/12 at 11:55

I think the reason for higher costs of medical needs is the doctors' cost for malpractice suits. Many people are going to a doctor's office looking for a law-suit.

What the hell; sue for 20 million because you stubbed your toe getting up on the table for examinations... then you can settle for 20 thousand... That is, depending on your lawyer.

By: slacker on 3/29/12 at 12:01

Yogi, everytime tort reform seems doable, some dumb arsed doctor cuts off the wrong appendage. See: nurse cuts off infants finger.

By: gdiafante on 3/29/12 at 12:11

Question: since when do nurses do amputations??

By: gdiafante on 3/29/12 at 12:13

Ok, nevermind...found the story...she was cutting a bandage off and *snip*. Yeah, I see your point, slacker.

By: yogiman on 3/29/12 at 12:14

I understand what you're saying, slacker. There is many boo boos in the medical field.

It reminds me when I was in a doctor's office when they were doing radiation on my wife. He stopped in the entrance room and made a comment about how good the people in the medical field were. The guys sitting there looked around thinking: Huh? I couldn't resist so I told him the medical field was like all others, you had experts, you had good ones, you had mediocre and you had some that was in the wrong damn business and you didn't know which one you had until you got them. He turned around are went through the door and never stopped to say "good morning" again in that office.

By: gdiafante on 3/29/12 at 12:22

No doubt that there are bad doctors. I wonder how much debt comes into play. Student loans have now topped $1 trillion, a significant amount of which is med students/doctors.

So you have new doctors with significant debt already, now having to pay higher than usual malpractice insurance...it's not good.

You know, when you really thing about it, we're f*****.

By: gdiafante on 3/29/12 at 12:22

s/h/b think

By: slacker on 3/29/12 at 12:28

I have it from a credible source, listening to Frank Sinatra has a surprising medical effect.
-Tommy Dorsey

By: gdiafante on 3/29/12 at 12:54

Sinatra was an advocate for medical marijuana...

Doo be doo be doo...

By: BigPapa on 3/29/12 at 12:55

Good info
http://www.cato.org/pubs/wtpapers/ObamaHealthCareReform-Levy.pdf

By: gdiafante on 3/29/12 at 1:10

Papa, I tried to found out if anyone here actually thought the mandate was Constititional. Myself, Ben, slacker and you said no. Probably yogi too. Did anyone else answer?

By: gdiafante on 3/29/12 at 1:14

s/h/b Constitutional...

By: BenDover on 3/29/12 at 1:38

No no... it's Scooby Dooby doo.... which brings us full circle back to the chin-beard again.

By: BenDover on 3/29/12 at 1:42

Congressional OBM puts the tab at around $1.8 Trillion now where it was $900B before. That still includes the gimmick of back-loading all of the major costs until after the election this year so the 10 years number would come in under $1,000,000,000,000. Anyone who thought the costs were true were full of sh*t anyway. Entitlements never shrink.

By: gdiafante on 3/29/12 at 1:53

So, if the entire law is deemed unconstitutional, what's the budget implications? Anything come off the debt?

By: gdiafante on 3/29/12 at 2:03

Remember what I said about partisanship? Looks like Congress is reinforcing my statement. Here's what they've done today:

The House blocked Obama's bid to end oil subsidies. Says Mitch McConnell: "For some reason, they thought they could put political points on the board if the American people saw them voting for a tax hike that we all knew ahead of time didn't have the votes to pass.".

Then...the House passes Ryan's budget, knowing full well it doesn't have the votes to pass in the Senate.

It truly is a dog and pony show...

By: BenDover on 3/29/12 at 2:05

No, they have not started that spending yet. The gimmick was claiming the coming 6 years of costs spread over the entire 10 years period since it passed. Again... trying to get the number down below the magic $1T number. OMB's hands were tied though. They had to forecast it based on the rules and assumptions of the legislation. Current estimates by OMB put it at $1.8T before the end of the 10 year period. So not even including inflation or expansion as entitlements are wont to do you can consider that $1.8T actually only represents 6/10th of the real 10 year figure putting it at around $2.67T.

Truthfully though the whole thing is meant to eliminate private insurance by forcing companies to take on preexisting conditions and thus eliminate insurance all together. Who's going to pay for insurance if, when they get sick or hurt, they can just step up and pay a months premium and be covered?

Then the government will claim the administration costs are too much for the taxpayers and welcome to single payer.

By: BenDover on 3/29/12 at 2:11

No, there is consensus gd... Obama's budget went down 414-0 in the house today.

By: BenDover on 3/29/12 at 2:17

As for chin beard, I was distinguishing it that way because I thought the 'goatee' was the mustache and beard not touching the side burns. From the Gillette 'library of styles' database I find that the chin-only beard is officially the 'goatee' where the mustache / beard combo not touching the side burns is a Van Dyke.

By: gdiafante on 3/29/12 at 2:17

Ben, both the House and Senate have to agree. That would be a consensus. And that's my point. Unless one party controls both houses...and has a super majority, it's not going to happen.

I don't believe that's what the Founding Fathers had in mind.

By: BenDover on 3/29/12 at 2:21

I think we had quite enough 'agreement' during the Obama, Pelosi, Reid reign of 2009 - 2011.

By: gdiafante on 3/29/12 at 2:23

forcing companies to take on preexisting conditions and thus eliminate insurance all together.

Pre-existing conditions are a joke and a convenient excuse for insurance companies to save money. Example: ten years ago I had chest pain. Went to the doctor, they hooked me up to an EKG. Said I had an enlarged heart. This was the first time in my life that I've ever been treated for a cardio problem.

You can guess the rest...the insurance refused to pay saying it was a pre-existing condition. I fought back, they lost. That was a complete waste of my time and their resources because they didn't want to pay a few hundred dollars.

There are many more documented examples where lifesaving treatment has been declined. That is a sad commentary on profit-making versus the life of someone.

The pre-exising condition aspect of the health care law is probably the best part.

By: gdiafante on 3/29/12 at 2:25

Well Ben, you won't see much of a difference from today than if the GOP get control. Either way, nothing much gets done. One way by design, the other by necessity.

There are too many pressing issues in this country to be satisfied that our lawmakers have their head up their ass.

By: BenDover on 3/29/12 at 2:27

better their heads up each others than their fist up mine.

By: BenDover on 3/29/12 at 2:28

Not one single vote from a single democrat for Obama's budget.

By: gdiafante on 3/29/12 at 2:33

What does it matter, Ben? Both sides understand the votes aren't there...it's a complete circus.

You're asking for a fist with a name like BenDover...Just saying.

By: Loner on 3/29/12 at 2:40

Is PPCACA Constitutional? That's above my pay grade to determine...it appears to be politically constipational, if not actually constitutional. And political constipation can lead to trouble in the lower tract of the body politic. If the SCOTUS strikes down PPCACA, that will be the equivalent of a political enema on the body politic...it won't be pretty....but the necessary elimination of that blocked waste will be a relief.

By: yogiman on 3/29/12 at 2:47

Well, like congress, I haven't read the bill either, but I've read from some who has that it's going to be a much bigger bill than just a medical bill. It's going to give the government much more power over the people.

By: BenDover on 3/29/12 at 3:14

But don't you think someone in the president's party would support the president on his vision. That's what a president's budget is supposed to be.

Reid won't even bring it up to vote in the senate because he knows it would torpedo just like the previous years. They say the republicans are the "party of no" but it's the president who is from some planet other than earth, evidently, when it comes to spending.

By: slacker on 3/29/12 at 3:44

Ben, the president's party will have more flexibility after their re-election.

By: Loner on 3/29/12 at 3:53

Yes, after the election, we drop the facade...we go full commie...we outlaw the Republicans and round 'em up...just like Yogi predicted.

By: slacker on 3/29/12 at 4:00

All Hail Chairman Loner.

By: yogiman on 3/29/12 at 4:05

Hang in there, Loner. Time will tell. Just a few more months and you ain't gonna like the picture.

Just yacking back and forth over this site apparently leaves you blank on the government. But I'll repeat, how can a man with enough intelligence to chat over this site be so ignorant they readily vote for someone as they president when they don't even know who the guy is? And the only reason I have been able to come up with is because he is black. That, my friend (as I use the term loosely) is pure racism.

By: BenDover on 3/29/12 at 5:48

Hippie chicks are my weakness, loner, but I'm down for the struggle... bring 'em on...