Up for Debate: Supreme Court to rule on health care

Monday, June 25, 2012 at 1:35am

How do you think the Supreme Court will rule on the challenge to the individual mandate of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act? What will the political aftershocks look like?

Filed under: City Voices
Tagged: Up for Debate

123 Comments on this post:

By: Loner on 6/25/12 at 4:32

Good morning, Nashville.

Without consulting my crystalline spheres of clairvoyance, speculation of the USSC's decision, re: Obama's ACA, is fraught with risk.

The Bush family packed the top court with folks who think that corporations are flesh & blood people and are entitled to certain human and civil rights, like unlimited bankrolling of political candidates etc. With a mentally unhinged and pro business court like this one, anything is possible.

My gut tells me that at least part of the ACA will be struck down....as the FOX-addicted right-wingers and the one-percenters cheer, those who are stripped of their newly found benefits will react by supporting Obama in November's election.

The blowback from any loss of patient benefits in the health care system will, on balance, help the Democrats and hurt the Republicans this fall....the average voter wants affordable health care, not more Holy Wars fought to establish, bankroll and defend the Jewish state in Palestine.....but at this point, it looks like the "sweet spot" for Israel to attack Iran is in September-October of this year.....I do not think that the voters will be inclined to accept a decrease in health benefits and more Holy War simultaneously...of course, religion clouds human reason and many Americans will go along with anything that the Israelis plan for us.....meanwhile, in Israel, top-shelf health care is universally available to every Israeli...thanks to the generosity of Uncle Sam.

By: dargent7 on 6/25/12 at 5:12

Probably the most important decision a president makes is who to put on the Supreme Court. After whether to go to war.
GW Bush blew them all. I wouldn't trust his judgement on which cantelope to buy at Kroger.
SCOTUS is so out of touch with America.
One justice got robbed in the Bahamas at gun point and that experience may adjust his thinking about gun control.
Otherwise, they all live in a bubble, insulated from reality.
They overturn ObamaCare.

By: gdiafante on 6/25/12 at 5:13

My gut tells me that at least part of the ACA will be struck down....as the FOX-addicted right-wingers and the one-percenters cheer, those who are stripped of their newly found benefits will react by supporting Obama in November's election.


I agree. I think at minimum the mandate will be gone. At most, the entire law. Regardless, I doubt it will be less than a decade before Washington can get any other meaningful reforms down the pipe.

By: gdiafante on 6/25/12 at 5:14

I'd agree, Darge. The Citizen United decision was a litmus test for the court. They're off the reservation, so no one should be surprised about the decision this week.

By: Loner on 6/25/12 at 5:40

Right now, the main election "issue" is Obama's handling of the US economy ....Romney has nothing new to offer , other than carping and criticizing anything and everything that Obama has accomplished....maybe the health care debate will add something substantive to the limited debate.

Hopefully, somebody will point to Israel's excellent universal health care system and ask why it is that we are bankrolling them instead of the other way around....of course, the Israelis are bankrolling our political candidates, but not our economy...we bankroll their economy, but do not finance their politicians as they seek public office in Israel....the Israelis would never stand for that. We are fools for Zionism in Palestine.

I still want to see somebody ask Romney and Obama how and why they support the free, universally available, Israeli state-funded abortion services....apparently Romney and Obama support Israel's right to exist; but not the Israeli fetus' right to life.....they need to be quizzed about that, IMO.

By: yogiman on 6/25/12 at 5:58

I can understand your "love" of Israel, Loner, but it's hard to understand your thoughts Mitt Romney doesn't know any more about economy than Barack Obama.

Romney doesn't have anything new to offer? I'd say he has a lot to offer. Romney has made money in private business and politics. All Obama has done is spend it... at our expense.

I do agree we should not be monetarily supporting Israel, or any other nation. But aren't we still supporting England after our war with them?

By: BenDover on 6/25/12 at 6:10

They'll have to shoot down the individual mandate because it's clearly unconstitutional. The remedy is what the news will be all about. Either a big win by shutting the whole thing down or a big loss by leaving everything else intact and forcing the costs (that they back-loaded and lied about) onto the taxpayers at large.

By: gdiafante on 6/25/12 at 6:16

We disagree Ben. If it's all shut down, we all lose because Washington won't deliver another reform. At least not anytime soon.

Especially if the Teatards win in November.

By: BenDover on 6/25/12 at 6:19

As far as the running claim about stacking the court, that's the oft' repeated red herring of the left who's p*ssed off they have not accomplished this wish. The Bush appointments are constitutionalists who are the only thing standing now between a leftist overthrow of the country via our court system and the leftist ideologues on the court now.

Consulting 'international law' to rationalize their positions... inventing laws where none exist... this is judicial activism. Not ruling something unconstitutional that clearly violates our constitution.

By: gdiafante on 6/25/12 at 6:23

Where's John McEnroe when you need...You cannot be serious!...

There is nothing in the Constitution, notes on the Constitution, the Federalist Papers or any other notes, correspondence, etc., from any founding father that can explain the Citizens United ruling. N-O-T-H-I-N-G.

There's no danger of a Leftist overthrow, we just had one by the far right.

Get ready folks, Ben has fastened his tin-foil hat on and has an ice cold pitcher of Kool-aid ready to drink...

By: BenDover on 6/25/12 at 6:25

You always seem to be of the opinion that something is better than nothing... that more is better than less. When government is concerned that's simply not the case.

The Repubs have a plan in the pipeline to deal with the pre-existing condition problem through a national risk pool and propose to improve the system we have by allowing competition across state lines. 4000 pages of top down high-handed Washington bureaucracy violates the 'first do no harm' rule and it's not the remedy our country needs or can afford.

By: BenDover on 6/25/12 at 6:26

Have you read the CU ruling GD?

By: yogiman on 6/25/12 at 6:30

I believe I'll like that Kool-aid better than better than that hot chocolate milk we're getting now. It will quince my thirst a lot better.

And you'd better get ready for martial law.

By: dargent7 on 6/25/12 at 6:32

Romney was a vulture capitalist. Over 10 years at Bain, he probably lost/ laid off more jobs than created.
He personally said, "I'd let GM fail", and coming from a Detroit boy, he has no heart.
He said, "I enjoy firing people".
He wants to shut down Planned Parenhood, fooling people into thinking it's a front for abortions, where it's only 3% of it's duties and procedures.
He also said, "he'd overturn Roe v. Wade".
Obama's team is assembling all these quotes of his and will run the hit piece ad closer to the election. Now it would loose it's punch by Nov.
He won't get the women's, black, or Hispanic vote.
Hillbilly and rich, white, wealthy vote? Yes.

By: budlight on 6/25/12 at 6:39

yogiman on 6/25/12 at 6:58
I can understand your "love" of Israel, Loner, but it's hard to understand your thoughts Mitt Romney doesn't know any more about economy than Barack Obama.

Yogi, Loner thinks that Obama created the universe, so naturally he thnks that Obama has been good for the economy. Over 13% of the black population is on the unemployment roles. Oh well, I guess Loner and Obama think that's a good thing. Keep in mind that if people are getting free handouts, they actually think that Obama is "giving" them something. When it is actually coming out of the pockets of the average hard working American citizen.

Did you see the news about that guy they kicked out of the Kenny Chesney concert "because he looked like Chesney"? Funny. I hope he gets his $200 back. Who in their right mind would pay $200 for a concert? Probably those rich CP posters like Loner and D7 who have money to burn! LOL

By: gdiafante on 6/25/12 at 6:39

Yes I have, Ben. And I completely agree with Stevens dissent.

By: Moonglow1 on 6/25/12 at 6:41

Moonglow1: The right wingers of the court will strike down the individual mandate. Other parts of the law will stand. After all, the Affordable Health Care Act was originally the brainchild of Repubs and the law is a big win for insurance companies and big Pharma. Many insurance companies and hospitals have already implemented parts of the law and plan to move forward no matter what the Supreme right wing court ruling.

Obama failed by not championing a public option.

The insurance companies will continue to raise prices and deny care. Big pharma will continue to push their drugs on a docile public. Nothing much will change.

The only change will be the push for electronic medical records and outcome-based care.

Those of you like the Yogi voting for Romney are actually casting your vote for Sheldon Adelson who is purchasing this election to further his right wing pro Israeli agenda and to keep the DOJ from investigating his corrupt business practices which is why he is worth billions. With Adelson (Romney) you can be certain of another war and more tax money siphoned off for the defense contractors who have taken over your govt.

By: Kosh III on 6/25/12 at 6:41

We should have universal citizen coverage. Abolish Medicaid, VA Health Care, the cadillac coverage Congress gets for itself and all other programs.

Expand Medicare to all citizens, with everyone paying the same rate of tax for it. Expand coverage to include vision, dental and long-term and catastrophic care. This is the plan that the AMA has been pushing for several years.

One program would be more efficient and more cost-effective. Funny how all the avowed "fiscal conservatives" want to keep the very inefficient and costly current status. A risk-pool? Only if you can afford a few thousand a month in premiums.

By: Kosh III on 6/25/12 at 6:43

"corporations are flesh & blood people and are entitled to certain human and civil rights"

No Loner. They want them to have MORE rights than mere biological entities.

By: yogiman on 6/25/12 at 6:47

Many negative things are being said about Mitt Romney on this site, so let me make a couple of points. Romney has been "up front" about himself. He hasn't tried to hide anything.

He went to Harvard Business school and Harvard Law school simultaneously. He passed the Michigan Bar but never worked as an attorney. He just gained the knowledge of the laws.

His initial business start was a company in Massachusetts that sold office supplies. That company is known as Staples. They now have over 2,000 stores and over 90,000 employees.

What kind of education did Obama have given to him? Other than usurping the Oval Office, what has Obama accomplished since he went to Harvard Law school.

Where did he make his millions except from a false autobiography?

Are they different as political candidates? Let's see: Romney has shown his un-doctored birth certificate. He is also willing to show his college transcript, his Law degree, his un-doctored draft notice and his un-doctored Social Security Number (including telling which state it was issued in).

Since Obama refuses to show these personal papers, what is he hiding, and why is he hiding them?

By: Loner on 6/25/12 at 6:48

Romney believes that Israeli women have the right to choose, but American women do not have such a right...he needs to explain himself on that point....that's all I'm saying, kids. Why the double standard?

Of course the Israel-friendly US media would probably not publicize the blank stare in Romney's eyes if and when he were ever asked to explain his double standards...one for Gentiles and another for Jews.

Mormons believe that they are members of the lost tribes of Israel...is that the reason that Romney kow tows to his Israeli overlords? It's a legitimate question...Israel is not our ally...they Israelis have stabbed us in the back before and they will do it again....I do not want a Zionist Jew wannabe in the White House...call me old fashioned, but the POTUS should be an America-first sort of person, IMHO.

By: govskeptic on 6/25/12 at 6:50

Mitt's plan to stop the over promised pension plan for Postal Workers and
apply that money to supporting college tuition to children of illegals is
genus! Mitt will get a majority of the middle class votes who still have to
work for a living no matter how high or low the salary! Expect to see a
decision on this case that is divided into the parts that are reasonable
and unreasonable for this country to handle/afford/administer!

By: Moonglow1 on 6/25/12 at 6:51

Moonglow1: Obama's power to create jobs is limited. Even the Intergovernmental Settlement Bank is warning governments they can no longer rely on the Central Bank to fix the economy. Banks cannot continue to engage in risky bets and expect governments to bail them out. Until the Glass Steagall Act is reinstated, nothing will change. "The financial industry is bankrupting our economy along with the corrupt and ignorant politicians, the defense contractors and ALEC.

We can expect worse including war under an Adelson (Romney) administration. Romney is nothing more than a mouthpiece for Adelson.

By: yogiman on 6/25/12 at 6:54

Moonglow1,

I can assure you, the major reason I will vote for Romney is bcause he is running for that office legally. Your boy Barry isn't.

By: gdiafante on 6/25/12 at 6:54

call me old fashioned, but the POTUS should be an America-first sort of person, IMHO.

should being the key word. What the POTUS is, in fact, is what the rest of Washington is, which is bought and paid for. CU just makes it legal.

That sound you hear is the founders turning in their graves.

By: yogiman on 6/25/12 at 6:58

budlight,

I believe Loner's, and others, hate for Israel today is too much like the segregation fact in the US decades ago.

I do believe the USA isn't obligated to support the world.

By: Moonglow1 on 6/25/12 at 7:01

Moonglow1: Postal pension plans??? And why not: postal employees work for a living and were promised benefits that should be honored. This idea that people don't deserve their benefits is wrong. Just because the private sector has outsourced jobs to China to milk every penny they can (Apple is a good example) why should our entire economy and treatment of the working class model be based on a greedy "screw the people" system.

The more enlightened companies are returning to the USA and investing in their employees.

Quit listening to ALEC propaganda. They want people to work like slaves for their corporate masters.

Apparently this propaganda works on people like Yogi. People who can be led like lambs to their slaughter. It is very sad really.

By: yogiman on 6/25/12 at 7:16

Loner,

You call yourself "old fashioned" for not wanting a man in the White House because of his religion and he support a nation you hate, yet you voted for a man for the White House because of his race when you didn't even know his legal name.

Now, let's compare the two: Romney is open about himself, yet Obama refuses to even let you know his legal name.

And you favor a president whom you have no idea who in the hell he is? For your information let me point it out to you: You can't legally run in a race if you aren't legally qualified to be in said race. Obama has never proven his legal qualification and continues to refuse.

Even "winning" the race, he can't legally win it.

By: Moonglow1 on 6/25/12 at 7:19

Moonglow1: Read about Mormons. It would be like having a scientologist in the White House. They believe they should take over the world.

The news media has shied away from the religion thing. Why? They shouldn't. Americans need to know what type of man will occupy the White House.

I wonder if he would tithe his salary to the church. I would not be happy to have my tax dollars support the Mormon church.

And Yogi, the Romney's fled the USA to settle in Mexico to practice polygamy. He is not American. His family ran away. He may be an American citizen by birth but not in spirit.

Romney is for himself by himself. By his own admission, he hates people. He prefers to fire them. After all-that is why he excelled at vulture capitalism. He created nothing. He bought companies at bargain rates and sold them with borrowed money. It is a failed model. A financial model. Not a "build up" America model. Not an inventive model. He invented nothing, created nothing, implemented nothing.

But he did fire people. What a guy!!!

By: Moonglow1 on 6/25/12 at 7:25

Moonglow1: Yogi, u better check to be sure Adelson is a US citizen because he is actually who will be running the country if Romney bot wins.

By: slacker on 6/25/12 at 7:34

Mormonism verus Black Liberation Theology. That would be an interesting debate.

By: BenDover on 6/25/12 at 7:43

In BLT you don't have to wait 'til you die to control your own planet, slack.

By: BigPapa on 6/25/12 at 7:44

"We should have universal citizen coverage. Abolish Medicaid, VA Health Care, the cadillac coverage Congress gets for itself and all other programs.

Expand Medicare to all citizens, with everyone paying the same rate of tax for it. Expand coverage to include vision, dental and long-term and catastrophic care. This is the plan that the AMA has been pushing for several years. "

Toss in a free Christmas while you're at it. Yeah, that's all a great idea, but the truth is you can't tax those of us that do pay taxes enough to ever fund that pipe dream. It's a monster that will eat the entire budget, for an example look at our TnCare program.

Before Bredesen put in those very very tough reforms it was eating the entire budget.

By: Rasputin72 on 6/25/12 at 7:44

A Universal health care plan for a productive society such as Norway,Sweden and Switzerland and even Germany is perhaps a good thing.

In a country like the United States with a huge underclass population and one that has 47% of its people not paying any federal income tax a universal health plan is financial destruction for the 53% who do pay a federal income tax.

The tax rate will be so high that it will encourage more people in the bottom rung of the taxed population to realize that working pays less than welfare. Ultimately with the United States in decline I do not think there are enough high income people to support the welfare.

I give you Greece,Spain,France,Italy and Portugal.

At some point one must encourage people to work at whatever work is available.

By: gdiafante on 6/25/12 at 7:56

Ultimately with the United States in decline I do not think there are enough high income people to support the welfare.

And there won't be in the future, either. Why? (1) this country has a culture of demonizing intelligence, (2) the college bubble is pricing kids into life-long debt, (3) universities are offering too many degrees that have no real-world application (4) our kids aren't smart enough or prepared to be engineers or scientists.

This hasn't happened overnight.

By: yogiman on 6/25/12 at 7:58

Laws are laws, Moonglow1.

Romney had nothing to do with his grandfather moving to Mexico. He was born in the USA with American citizens as his parents (please note, I said American [citizens]. Not one American citizen, but both. Check Barry out on that issue. Which of his parents was an American citizen? Which heritage did you get when you was born; your mother's, or your father's?

You say the Mormons want to take over the world. What in the hell do you think the usurper in office wants to do?

You mention "checking" Adelson if Romney wins because he will be the running the country.

Who do you think is running the country today; Obama? Gimme a break, Moonglow1.

You tell me to make sure "my man" is a USA citizen, but you refuse to prove to me "your man" is a US citizen.

Based on what little you know about Obama, can you explain why, by his known [middle class family] background, he was able to go to expensive schools? Can you explain why he refuses to show his papers? Can you explain where he made the wealth he gain at such an early age?

A question keeps popping up in my mind: What if Obama is proven to have never been a US citizen? Would you still want him as YOUR president?

By: Rasputin72 on 6/25/12 at 7:59

Gdiafante,,,,,,,,,,,Surely there will not be anyone who disagrees with your 8:56 post. An astute observation.

By: revo-lou on 6/25/12 at 8:00

The ACA is the best thing to come along in this country in 40 years.

By: dargent7 on 6/25/12 at 8:01

My God..."what has Obama accomplished..."? Is this "yogi" guy for real?
How about becoming, usurper or not, the President of the United States. Just after a 2 year stint in the IL State Senate.
Bugs you racists he rose to the top rather quickly, doesn't it? Want him to languish in Congress for decades to earn the right to run, and win, the W.H.
GW Bush was Gov. of TX and owned a baseball team. Don't recall anyone asking for his Birth Cert., college transcripts, grades.
You want to compare that with a Staples office supply store?
Romney has NOT released his last 5 years of tax returns.
Obama's have been published since 2008.
Romney may have received a J.D. from Harvard but he didn't teach, wasn't a professor, wasn't Editor of the Law Review, and never practiced law.
Just carved up cos. and made $100. million in the process. He made that $100. million benefiting the middle class?

By: slacker on 6/25/12 at 8:08

''Those who can do. Those who can't teach.''

By: gdiafante on 6/25/12 at 8:12

Why would anyone who can want to teach? They'd have to become a dreaded government worker, they'd have to deal with idiotic curriculums and testing, absentee parents, kids who were spared the rod and a society that views them as the problem.

By: gdiafante on 6/25/12 at 8:15

Put it this way, our society values a Kardashian more than a teacher. No wonder we're in decline.

By: BenDover on 6/25/12 at 8:18

My degree is in Math Education and I was set to be a teacher. Got into computer programming though and could never afford the pay cut. I may still go back eventually now that I don't need the money anymore.

Agree with you on your 8:56a gd.

By: slacker on 6/25/12 at 8:23

Beb, I've been making up signs.. thought you were gonna challenge ''Coop.''

By: gdiafante on 6/25/12 at 8:23

It bugs the hell out of me, Ben. I work with my kids on math, science, etc now (they're 4 and 6) and hope it sticks because I have zero faith in our education system.

By: BenDover on 6/25/12 at 8:26

Not having a lateral path from other disciplines into public teaching really hurts the profession. Basing advancement on the # of times you've punched a clock and how many advanced toot-&-toss degrees you have, instead of what you are able to accomplish is also very detrimental. Throw in tenure where security is more important to someone than opportunity and you get a really inbred bunch to be sure.

It's a recipe for failure. Those highly qualified and dedicated people who can stick it out amid the inevitable morass of losers surrounding them are to be lauded by society because we certainly don't reward them.

By: BenDover on 6/25/12 at 8:35

Too late this cycle, slack. It'll have to be in 2014. It's better though because '14 is an off-cycle and there will be low turn-out in the Dem primary (unless someone like Harold Jr decides to run and someone else puts up a fight against him).

Low turnout would give a chance to a grass-roots attempt to whip up the gay, black and youth votes against Cooper on the social wedges. He'd never know what hit him.

By: BenDover on 6/25/12 at 8:37

Unless Harold Jr decides to run for Governor, that is. I don't expect that until Haslem has run his course though.

By: slacker on 6/25/12 at 8:38

No problem Ben.. I'll convert these signs to: Vote Benmney.

By: yogiman on 6/25/12 at 8:40

I hate to disappoint you, dargent7, but you accuse me of being a racist because of the race of the usurper in office. Understandably, you don't know me. I oppose him of being in that office, not because of his race or his [early in life] accomplishments, but because of his refusal to show any papers on himself.

The only thing I have read as why you voted for him was because he was the first black president of this nation. That isn't racism? What could it be. You certainly didn't know anything else about him.

Obama has been sitting in that office since 2009. How many of his taxes did he show before he went into the office?

You say Obama was a teacher, a professor and editor, but you have seen no papers on it. Has any of his classmates came out saying anything about him? Why not?

In case you don't know how damning it can be when, or if, he is found to be in that office illegally, it can be damning to this nation. Or don't you care? I hope you're ready for communism. I'm not.