Letters to the Editor

Friday, May 15, 2009 at 1:00am

Wipe away the sneer

It seems that ex-Vice President Dick Cheney isn't satisfied that he got away with the atrocities that he and ex-Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld sponsored while President Bush was asleep at the wheel.

He is now on a tour defending the torture of suspected terrorist detainees as an effective tool to protect America from further attacks — regardless of the fact that this was in violation of domestic and international law. It was also in violation of the Geneva Convention and has never been American policy.

The investigations by the Obama Justice Department seem to be targeting the lawyers that rewrote the descriptions of what constitutes torture. I don't think that this goes far enough, since they were ordered to do so by the executive branch in case they were discovered and had to try to justify it as being legal.

I think that since Cheney is so arrogant about the crimes that he committed in his imagined righteous might that the investigations should go all the way to the top and if necessary set up international war crimes trials such as was done at Nuremberg after WWII such as some other European Nations have suggested.

Maybe that would wipe the twisted sneer from his face.

We need something severe like this to show the world that we are still a nation of justice and not what the prior administration did in secrecy to the world and to us Americans in Gestapo fashion.

Hopefully President Obama will turn the Justice Department loose to cleanse our reputation.

C.W.Clouse, 37209

Submit letters by e-mail at letters@nashvillecitypaper.com

302 Comments on this post:

By: eastnashville37207 on 5/15/09 at 2:47

Nancy is doing her best by cleansing the reputation of the Democrat Party who all voted after 9/11 to go forward. Nancy said that politics where more important than the National Security of the U.S. If the democrats want to cleanse their reputation they need to start by removing Nancy.

By: idgaf on 5/15/09 at 3:31

Get a towel he is drooling again.

Figured it was him or 7.

en think they should drug test her? To think she is third in line to become the president.

By: daKine7 on 5/15/09 at 5:01

Clay: I did think this was mine, too. My exact feelings. id. doesn't realize the fact we write solely to irritate him, Chief, Bend, Citizen, and CAH. And a few other odds and ends.

By: daKine7 on 5/15/09 at 5:08

Congrats Clay; I wondered over to The Tennessean and it's deja vu'. You got a two-fer. There you'll irritate a robust group of lunatics, eg. Ham, Durango, RFD Guy. Al Gore, reiterating his insane position that the earth revolves around the sun, is on the front page so many won't go near today's edition.

By: Captain Nemo on 5/15/09 at 6:06

Good morning.

I am watching this story with interest. However if id thinks it is true, then it is most likely NOT. lol

By: Captain Nemo on 5/15/09 at 6:14

About yesterday

That was one wild and funny day.

I had a good laugh when I got home.

By: Loner on 5/15/09 at 6:15

Good morning, Nashville!

Congrats, Dooley! Excellent LTE. Here's a cut/paste of a post that I just left on the New York Daily News, it fits here too:

Anyone who could shoot 83 farm-raised pheasants in a single afternoon of sport-carnage, as Cheney did in Latrobe, PA, could easily justify these "enhanced interrogation techniques". Although Dick chickened out of service during the Vietnam War, his thirst for blood and vengeance has never been slaked. Bush is a gullible idiot, Cheney is a complete A-hole, with leadership like their's, nobody should be surprised at the abject failure of their Administration. As for Pelosi, the fork-tongued woman is rotten to the core, she can no longer distinguish the truth from lies.

You can join the NYDN conversation at :

http://www.nydailynews.com/forums/thread.jspa?messageID=963147#963147

By: Captain Nemo on 5/15/09 at 6:30

Jim Jones was the son of a Klansman.

The kool-aid was laced with cyanite and tranquilizers. Babies were killed by injecting poison in their mouths.

BenDover for Bush is hooked up to two IV drips of the stuff and idgaf snorts a power version.

By: Loner on 5/15/09 at 6:58

Jones was a pistol-packing preacher with a "mega-church" of followers. He hated the US federal government, US taxes and US regulations. Sound familiar?

By: Citizen on 5/15/09 at 7:00

re. Clouse letter: Thank God for President Bush and Vice-President Chaney and the actions they took to protect all of us. The last I checked, terrorists captured during the commission of terrorist activities have no rights under domestic law, international law, the Geneva Convention, or some imagined American policy. I suppose Clouse is one of those people who think telling someone who is afraid of bugs that they will be put into a closed space with one bug is torture. Pity pity...

By: Captain Nemo on 5/15/09 at 7:12

Cirterzen is drinking the Kool-aid again.

By: house_of_pain on 5/15/09 at 7:17

I was going to join the Heaven's Gate crowd, but their refreshments sucked.

By: Loner on 5/15/09 at 7:21

Citizen, I understand your desire to protect this nation from harm, but rendition to third-party torturers, secret prisons, waterboarding and the Enhanced Intrerrogation Techniques (EIT) are counterproductive to that end.

President Obama has done a 180 on releasing the "abuse" photos etc., because he realizes that these images would act as recruiting posters for militant extremists. The more we torture, the more our enemies despise us and our friends distance themselves from us.

Cheney naturally claims that these EIT were effective in obtaining crucial information. We will never know if we could have gotten the same info using other methods.

One thing is clear, most people would confess to anything, if waterboarded enough, the veracity of confessions obtained through duress is highly questionable.

I wonder if the "slam dunk" on Saddam's WMD was, in actuality, a product of slam-dunking suspects on a waterboard. Did we invade Iraq because waterboarded suspects linked Saddam with 9-11, and "confessed" that Saddam had a WMD stockpile and a nuclear "yellow cake" program?

If so, Bush and Cheney are indeed war criminals.

By: Loner on 5/15/09 at 7:32

Pain, did I see you at the Branch Davidian barbeque?

Thanks for visiting my blog and no, I did not spend the day jammin' with Candy Dulfer, although I would surely love that. I don't normally play my alto, but if she wanted to play an alto duet, I'd bring that Selmer out of the closet. The picture on my blog shows me with "red", my B flat tenor. These days, I'm playing an 86-year old Beuscher C-melody sax, when I jam with the boys. It takes out the hassle of transposing and it has a unique timbre - kind of a subdued, yet potent, almost haunting sound.

The Chinese are now building brand new C melody (C-tenor) saxophones, if they catch on, a new sax revival could happen. You heard it here first.

By: CAH on 5/15/09 at 7:40

Those who think the Geneva Convention applies to Al Queda and the Taliban need to read it. Then, and only then, will you be qualified to expound on the subject.

By: chiefpayne568 on 5/15/09 at 7:47

Loner,

"Jones was a pistol-packing preacher with a "mega-church" of followers. He hated the US federal government, US taxes and US regulations. Sound familiar?

And the KKK was started by Democrats...what's your point?

By: Dragon on 5/15/09 at 7:50

Pelosi says the CIA lies to the Congress, so it doesn't matter what the CIA says.

Then cut the waste in time, money, and resources. Stop these so-called oversight hearings.

By: gdiafante on 5/15/09 at 7:55

"And the KKK was started by Democrats...what's your point?"

I suppose Loner must have struck a nerve for that child-like response. More coffee?

By: chiefpayne568 on 5/15/09 at 7:57

Dragon makes a good point. If Pelosi says we can't trust what the CIA says, then why are we even financing them?

I say if Pelosi truly believes the CIA lied to them and in fact used torture, she should prove she believes it and have the CIA disbanded...particularly if she thinks they are lying to her and giving her false information.

By: chiefpayne568 on 5/15/09 at 7:57

Gdia,

Not really...just curious where Loner was going.

Child-like response? I make a statement of fact and it's child-like?

By: chiefpayne568 on 5/15/09 at 7:59

Apparently there are more Pro-life advocates in the US now than there are Pro-Choice, at least according to this poll:

More Americans “Pro-Life” Than “Pro-Choice” for First Time
http://www.gallup.com/poll/118399/More-Americans-Pro-Life-Than-Pro-Choice-First-Time.aspx

By: pswindle on 5/15/09 at 8:01

Thanks to TN in 2000, we had the most incompetent president in the history of our country. Cheney realized this and he took over, and he invaded a country that had long been on his to-do list. He made so many trips to the CIA because he wanted them to say what he wanted them to say. You and I both know that The Speaker of the Hpouse and others only heard what Cheney wanted them to hear and know.

By: Loner on 5/15/09 at 8:01

CAH, if Al Qaeda, Hizbollah, Hamas and the Taliban are state-sponsored terrorists, as the right, the left, Israel and the media contend, then they should be covered under the Geneva Conventions. The fact that they do not wear uniforms or wear military dog-tags, like traditional soldiers, is irrelevant.

Who are the states sponsoring terror? We constantly hear that Iran, Syria and the Saudis are funding the "Jihadists." This is Holy War, these terror suspects are captured "soldiers of God". Like it or not, they're covered.

I may not be "qualified to expound on the subject", by your definition of "qualified", but I'd like to see your credentials, to verify your personal qualifications to expound on this subject.

Don't be shy, CAH, what qualifies you to expound on this subject?

By: gdiafante on 5/15/09 at 8:02

Ummm...it was just a summary of Jim Jones in regards to yesterday's discussion...not really an indictment of either political party...

Do you see everything through partisan glasses?

By: house_of_pain on 5/15/09 at 8:04

chief, I think the Pro-Life group should change their name to Pro-Birth.
Their attitude seems to be that once you successfully navigate the birth canal,
you are on your own.

By: chiefpayne568 on 5/15/09 at 8:05

pswindle,

Thanks to TN in 2000, we avoided having Al Gore as President. That is one thing I am EXTREMELY proud of for this state!

Pelosi only hears what SHE wants to hear. She SPECIFICALLY said she was not briefed at all on torture...and then had to back-peddle when it was proven she was briefed. Kind of hard to believe someone when they are constantly being contradicted with facts on paper.

By: gdiafante on 5/15/09 at 8:07

Remember, these Democrats are the same ones who went along with Bush on Iraq with their tails between their legs and then tripped over themselves to say they were "duped" afterwards. It's not like they're the brightest of the bunch.

By: chiefpayne568 on 5/15/09 at 8:07

House,

"I think the Pro-Life group should change their name to Pro-Birth.
Their attitude seems to be that once you successfully navigate the birth canal,
you are on your own."

I would agree to that...IF the Pro-Choice group changed their name to Pro-Death. Their attitude seems to be that if you don't want to be inconvenienced with a baby, why just kill it and be done with it.

See how things can be turned around if you're not careful what you wish for?

By: chiefpayne568 on 5/15/09 at 8:08

Gdiafante,

"Remember, these Democrats are the same ones who went along with Bush on Iraq with their tails between their legs and then tripped over themselves to say they were "duped" afterwards. It's not like they're the brightest of the bunch."

Exactly. If one has to pass blame to one, seems to me they have to pass blame to all. Fair is fair.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 5/15/09 at 8:09

Funny how the Pro-Life are usually in favor of the death penalty, which also makes them Pro-Death.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 5/15/09 at 8:09

Gdiafante,

"Remember, these Democrats are the same ones who went along with Bush on Iraq with their tails between their legs and then tripped over themselves to say they were "duped" afterwards. It's not like they're the brightest of the bunch."

I totally agree with that!

By: chiefpayne568 on 5/15/09 at 8:10

Gdia,

"Do you see everything through partisan glasses?"

Not particularly...but given the discussion above the comment, can you blame me for making the assumption it was a political point being made?

By: gdiafante on 5/15/09 at 8:10

CAH, I suppose you are citing the third Geneva Convention that applies to "members of the armed forces...". However, if you apply this to terrorism, wouldn't Al-Qaeda and the Taliban equate to an organized armed force? And, as Loner stated, they are State sponsored, which in effect makes them agents of the state, whether that be Iran, Syria or whoever. How then, would they not be qualified?

By: chiefpayne568 on 5/15/09 at 8:11

Blanket,

"Funny how the Pro-Life are usually in favor of the death penalty, which also makes them Pro-Death."

Depends on your point of view I guess. I figure BOTH are protecting innocents, myself.

By: chiefpayne568 on 5/15/09 at 8:15

Gdia,

"However, if you apply this to terrorism, wouldn't Al-Qaeda and the Taliban equate to an organized armed force? And, as Loner stated, they are State sponsored, which in effect makes them agents of the state, whether that be Iran, Syria or whoever. How then, would they not be qualified?"

Which state supports them? Doesn't the Taliban and Al-Qaeda need to officially be claimed by a state in order to become agents of that State?

And are they an organized armed force? One would normally equate that to an army, yet Al-Qaeda and the Taliban are not specifically soldiers as they use a civilian force to do the dirty work.

Seems to me the two groups are sufficiently in a dark area to permit them to be on either side of the argument.

By: house_of_pain on 5/15/09 at 8:16

But the Pro-Choice group also encourages education, contraception, and adoption.
Not just abortion.

By: chiefpayne568 on 5/15/09 at 8:18

House,

But they do encourage abortion as well...and that is the sticking point. Pro-Life also enourages the same things you just mentioned, abeit in a different manner than the Pro-Choice people.

It's a matter of perspective, I guess.

By: gdiafante on 5/15/09 at 8:22

They are an organized force. See 9/11.

The Taliban ran Afghanistan and are attempting to take over Pakistan.

You can't apply terrorism to conventional warfare. That's the problem most cold-war era relics have.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 5/15/09 at 8:23

Pro-life teaches abstinance only. That's ridiculous.

By: slacker on 5/15/09 at 8:24

I would now like to expound on ... uh..uh....uhhh.. I'll get back to you later.

By: chiefpayne568 on 5/15/09 at 8:25

Gdia,

So by your assumptions then, we are looking at a vital military force which should be treated as such, yes?

By: house_of_pain on 5/15/09 at 8:26

Looks like we're gonna be all over the place today. How shocking.

By: chiefpayne568 on 5/15/09 at 8:26

Blanket,

"Pro-life teaches abstinance only. That's ridiculous."

And teaching how to use a condom in Kintergarden isn't???

By: gdiafante on 5/15/09 at 8:29

It's not an assumption Chief, it's a fact. If it was not, why then did we invade two countries in order to destroy them?

By: Blanketnazi2 on 5/15/09 at 8:32

did i say teach them to use a condom in kindergarden?

By: chiefpayne568 on 5/15/09 at 8:35

Gdia,

In that case, why not just go into every country they exist in to root them out, regardless? After all, if they are an enemy army, then they are either supported by the countries they are in or are an enemy army within same country?

Let's just chase them all over the globe until they are defeated then, if that is your assumption.

By: Loner on 5/15/09 at 8:36

Chief, I was busy typing a response to CAH, now it's your turn in the barrel.

Chief wrote, "And the KKK was started by Democrats...what's your point?"

And what is Chief's point? Dragging out an irrelevant factoid like that is a classic example of a logic flaw known as the non sequitur; (it does not follow), it is used as a debating tool, when a debater is trying to deflect criticism of his/her own argument or position, it's a kind of obfuscation.

The Democrats that Chief refers to defected to the Republican Party after the Civil Rights Act passed. The Solid South flipped. The God-fearing, unrepentant Confederate-sympathizers are just the sort of folk who are attracted to pistol-packing pastors, right-to-bear-arms ministries and mega-churches.

Where am I going on this, just listen to your local Christian radio network, usually on the AM band. The radio-pastors hate the US federal government, US taxes, US regulations, the UN etc., but they love guns. Their doomsday rhetoric dovetails in with the more secular voices of alarm, like Rush, Savage, Hannity and the local, wannabe hate-mongers.

With daily audiences in the tens of millions and with President Obama so universally condemned by these righteous folks, it is just a matter of time before an armed nutjob(s) tries to snuff the prez.

By: BenDover on 5/15/09 at 8:37

bn... from yesterday...
It's a combination of parables and history. Parables were a common teaching technique of the time. The beauty of it is that if someone needs to believe it litteraly they are free to do so but if it makes more sense to another person as a parable then that is OK too. Interstingly from the account of the Garden of Eden to the flood is in only the first 10 pages; yet so many people try to use a literal interpretation of that fragment to discredit the whole. It's pretty sad the lengths people will go to in trying to diminish such a wonderful work of art and such a key-stone to our western civilization.

By: chiefpayne568 on 5/15/09 at 8:38

Blanket,

No, you made the comment they teach abstinence only.

I made the comment that Pro-Choice wants to teach condom use and safe sex practises to kintergardeners, want to teach that abortions are ok to teenagers and want to avoid the parents input at all.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 5/15/09 at 8:40

chief, that is not the opinion of all Pro-Choice individuals.