Letters to the Editor

Friday, September 18, 2009 at 12:11am

Heaven help us

Free speech and hate speak are two entirely different things. Free speech is guaranteed by The Constitution but hate speak and inciting violence is not.

The atmosphere that is created by the hate mongering of Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck — two of the worst among a bevy of fringe right hate mongers — only serves to create and atmosphere that is extremely dangerous for our president and his cabinet members that refuse to bow to their vitriol.

These right wingers know that there are more unbalanced right wing nuts out there than them and will listen to their bitter rhetoric and act on it. The Republican Party has lost its way and refuses to refute these crackpots.

I think that the networks are complicit in aiding and abetting these hate mongers and should be held accountable along with them if any situations of violence arise as a result of their hate speak. Right wing hate mongering has been responsible for several assassinations and attempted assassinations.

Remember if you falsely yell ‘Fire!’ in a crowded theater, it is not covered by the Constitution. So I really don't think the kind of hatred that Limbaugh and company spew is either.

If the true conservatives don't get tough and try to take their party back heaven help us all.

C.W.Clouse, 37209

Comment via e-mail to letters@nashvillecitypaper.com

224 Comments on this post:

By: idgaf on 9/18/09 at 1:06

Rush and Beck are the true conservatives Kool-aid drinker.

Trying to make points with Pelossi parroting her rant dooley?

By: dnewton on 9/18/09 at 1:27

If it were not for the Tenth Commandment, I would covet Clouse's absolute confidence in the ability to detect good from evil by simply fitting a few simple templates over a complex situation. I would caution, however, that we live in a world of many flawed template makers. Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck are flawed men. They have admitted that. If a flawed man can not find the truth then we are all doomed.

I would hope that if someone came into Clouse's home to steal something, there would be no uncivil remark uttered least the thief be detered from the perfection of his crime. If an arsonist came, by all means, supply the match. An attempt to perry a well aimed cudgel could cause the assailant the additional inconvenience of a second or third blow. The additional exertion would, no doubt, speed the planet to the burning Hell of Global Warming by the excessive production of Carbon Dioxide.

It is easier to hate ignorance when you are the victim of it. If one is the beneficiary of ignorance, it is more difficult to champion a truth that might damage your template. The Left tries to end the debate by declaring the fight over. Failing that ,they claim that the smart people agree with them. Conservative radio's biggest sin is to never slink away and admit the superiority of the arguements of the Left.

We are told by the left that the world hates us and then they say that we have earned that hate by past misbehaviour. It seems like Clouse is trying to say that some hate is legitimate and some is not. I agree. Apologizing to those who hold irrational hatred toward you seems a fruitless journey to peace but, using my presidents logic, Clouse should apologize to Limbaugh and Beck as soon as the time can be found to wait on hold several hours. 888-282-2882 would be a good start.

By: dargent7 on 9/18/09 at 3:36

What is a "true conservative" these days? A Sara Palin? A Huckabee? Palin's views on virtually everything was a throw-back to the 40's. Now there are are all theses 'demonstrations", and "Tea Baggers" who want the last election overturned.
They want to "take their country back". Well, you do that in America by voting, not marching on Washington carrying signs saying Obama is a Nazi. I've said it a hundred times before: Where were these fools when GW Bush invaded the wrong country responsible for 9/11?

By: dooley on 9/18/09 at 5:24

Newton I see that the shock treatments and long confinement failed.
You still can't make any sense.

By: dooley on 9/18/09 at 5:31

A true conservative is one who wants smaller government less taxes and a government of the people but with reason . I'll admit that they are few and far between nowadays but I know a few and consider them my friends even though we don't entirely agree on what governments role should be. They didn't have anything as stupid in the forties as palin although they did have a limbaugh/Beck in the person of Joseph McCarthy. Moderate democrats are what use to be Republicans.

By: dargent7 on 9/18/09 at 5:32

"Dooley"...agreed. Maybe if we up his voltage from 500 watts to 1,000 some sense can be made. He could sell the extra, unused volts to Bend-O. Heaven knows he could use all the volts he can get. I hear he flys kites in a storm, thinking he's Ben Franklin.

By: Kosh III on 9/18/09 at 6:10

dnewton said: "Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck are flawed men. They have admitted that."

So? Since they have not attempted to fix their flaws, their admission of sin is empty and vain. Instead of fixing their flaws they exploit and expand them.

By: Dragon on 9/18/09 at 6:23

Mr. Clouse fails to define "hate speech". Funny, Pelosi just finished saying that protests against the President's healthcare is rising to the point where she is afraid of violence. Clouse would define these protests as hate speech and make them illegal.

Anyone who speaks out against the socialist policies of Obama and the Democrats would be subject to arrest and confinement (and electroshock therapy). What happened the the land of the free?

By: Captain Nemo on 9/18/09 at 6:24

GOOD MORNING

Verbal Cartoon

Ever lasting peace has come to the world. No more wars. No more hunger. Life is good.

Rush Limbaugh speaking into the microphone, "No more war? What will become to all of the unempolyed soliders? No more hunger? What will become to all of the bleeding heart liberals? What will I complain about?"

By: Funditto on 9/18/09 at 6:32

No offense to Dooley and Paul, but everybody and their mother knows how they feel about any given issue. There should be a limit on the number of letters published by the same people. Personally, I'd like to hear from different people. Or is NCP that low on submissions?

By: dooley on 9/18/09 at 6:38

Dragon , inciting violence is against the law. You are about as out of it as fig Newton. That is exactly what Limbaugh and Beck are doing by encouraging these armed fruit cakes at the tea parties. I guess you don't remember John casper being arrested here in Nashville in the 60's for inciting to riot for a lost less than Limbaugh and Beck are spewing . Casper was only preaching racial segregation without promoting violence.

By: house_of_pain on 9/18/09 at 6:38

Don't look at me, Funditto...Penthouse won't even publish my crap.

By: dooley on 9/18/09 at 6:41

So would I funditto but there is such a lack of intellegence among the majority of posters that their letters would not merit publication The City paper is not responsible for that.
Why don't you write one ?

By: dooley on 9/18/09 at 6:43

And I tjhink you did mean offense toward us.

By: Dragon on 9/18/09 at 6:43

Dooley, show me evidence. Find where violence happened because of what Beck and Limbaugh said.

By: dooley on 9/18/09 at 6:43

sorry think.

By: dooley on 9/18/09 at 6:46

It hasn't happend yet dragon but if they keep it up the law of averages say's that it will. You or ed 179 may be one of the nuts to pull it off yourself.

By: Dragon on 9/18/09 at 6:48

I just thought of one, the liberal who bit off the finger of a conservative protester. It has to be the protesters fault for opposing Obama.

Pelosi called the townhall protesters Nazis. Does that qualify as hate speech?

By: Kosh III on 9/18/09 at 6:49

'tjhink"
A mis-spelling? I thoujght it was just tjhe Norwegian spellinjg. :)

By: dooley on 9/18/09 at 6:49

You know that it happened in California twice in the seventies as a result of hate speak .
Martin Luther King was also a victim of it .

By: slacker on 9/18/09 at 6:51

Everyone that has held that office, with maybe the exception of George Washington, have been vilified by partisans.
The country is divided, politically, and culturally, and it doesn't appear that it will improve anytime soon. The emotional tirades, against Bush & Obama have been extremely harsh.
People with different political views actually hate each other now, its evident in the replies you see in different blogs.

By: Funditto on 9/18/09 at 6:51

I actually have written some, d'argent. One defending the Catholic church when McGowan was caught and one about 7 years ago to the Tennessean when some clown said special education was a waste of tax payers money. I blasted him and subsequently got nasty, crazy emails from every kook in town. Won't be doing that again.
There is such a thing a overexposure and thinking that it's your way or the highway and anyone that doesn't agree with you means their a rube is just, well, it's dumb.

By: dooley on 9/18/09 at 6:51

All of you including Limbaugh call Obama nazi.

By: dargent7 on 9/18/09 at 6:52

Dragon: You kiddin' me? Beck/ Hannity and Limbaugh incite anarchy, violence, usurp a national election, stage a political coo. The "Tea Baggin" fools now come to "Town Halls" and Obama rallies with guns strapped to their legs. Real nice. Oh no, Dragon, no cause and effect whatsoever.

By: dooley on 9/18/09 at 6:56

I al ways include my e-mail address on my letters . The city paper never prints it but the Tennessean will some times . I don't fear nasty e-mails in fact I relish them so I can judge the nature of the person sending it and sometimes I learn something.

By: dooley on 9/18/09 at 6:57

If you are afraid to write a letter then don't criticize us that are not..

By: Dragon on 9/18/09 at 6:58

Show me evidence, dargent. I could easily say that Pelosi, Reid, Olberman, etc are the ones inciting people to demonstrate and protest.

By: dargent7 on 9/18/09 at 6:58

Fund: I didn't even respond as yet to your post, and you re-iterate your disdain to my LTE's. Want to drive yourself insane today? I'm in The Tennessean. Until the gene pool around these parts improves, me and Dooley is all TCP has got. And I gave up Catholicism a decade ago.

By: oyharward on 9/18/09 at 6:59

It appears many Liberals who think like Mr. Clouse may be suffering and hurting inside while Americans’ listeners are growing, searching the truth. Rush Limbaugh, Bill O’Reilly, Glenn Beck, Sean Sanity, and many other radio and TV anchors’ listeners and/or watchers are growing daily, weekly, monthly, and annually across America. These regular and newer listeners and watchers understand what the truth is.

The problem with Liberals is that so many believe that when you can’t argue on any reasonable debatable issue, the only viewpoint left to fight with is race baiting, hate speech, and/or any argument trying to turn the opposition against their own analysis.

America has awaked! Free speech is alive and well.

God Bless America.

Oscar Y. Harward
oharward@carolina.rr.com
http://conservativechristianvoice.blogspot.com

By: dooley on 9/18/09 at 7:01

You must have gotten that silly s--t from Beck . sounds just like him.

By: dooley on 9/18/09 at 7:05

Well I've heard all of this lunacy I can stand for another week .Hasta La vista baby. Why don't some of you idiots try writing letters so we can all have a hearty laugh?

By: Funditto on 9/18/09 at 7:07

I'm not criticizing you guys, I'm criticizing NCP for not varying their submissions. Geez, lighten up. I'm on your side!

Since I am female, I'm not going to put myself out there any longer - too easy to find where folks live. My address wasn't published but I got letters and prayer cards!

Today, I head a charity and would alienate many supporters if they knew how I really felt so I remain anonymous.

By: idgaf on 9/18/09 at 7:09

Hate mail to the left (7 and dooley) is anything they disagree with. Look at thier posts and see all the personal attacks on this thread alone.

Vitimization is the base of the left.

Poor babies.

By: Funditto on 9/18/09 at 7:10

I know d'argent, I read the Tennessean every morning before I log on here. And I know where you and live. How many hate letters have you received? Does your employer agree with you? I'm just sayin' there is a reason why some don't write letters and most admire your courage. Get a grip.

By: house_of_pain on 9/18/09 at 7:10

Seems to me that most of the "hate speech" is coming from Mr. Clouse today.

By: Funditto on 9/18/09 at 7:11

vitimization? Is that some sort of new medicine?

By: dnewton on 9/18/09 at 7:16

Why is the speech of Limbaugh and Beck so offensive or considered to be provoking bad behavior? Is not my president demonizing the people that he intends to tax? It seems that people are being tried in the court of opinion without due process. It seems like the financial and corporate sectors of the economy are being convicted by virtue of a lax stereotype rather than their actual individual guilt.

If you re-write Robin Hood and take out the part where Robin and his merry band are there to vex the Sheriff of Nottingham and an illegitimate king, Robin Hood is nothing more than a thief who must struggle against the disadvantage of thieving without the color of law.

His demonization of capitalism, CEO's and bonus pay telegraphs his moves. If capitalism is based on greed, socialism is based on envy. The only change I see coming is a change in the nature of our temptations.

By: chiefpayne568 on 9/18/09 at 7:20

I often wonder if those who say the tea party protests are full of hate speech had any issue with the Code Pink people and some of the things they said.

Did those who have problmes with the nuts carrying the Obama = Hitler signs have a problem with those who had similar signs saying Bush = Hitler?

I've heard some actually say that Obama should not be compared to an animal but the same people had no problem calling Bush the Chimp in Chief, et al.

So, what I want to know is...what constitutes hate speech? Is it the actual words...or is hate speech defined by WHO they are directed against?

By: pandabear on 9/18/09 at 7:32

In response to the letter:

huh ?

By: sidneyames on 9/18/09 at 7:37

Thank you Clouse. Of course I'm too stupid to know the difference. So naturally some democrat has to make it clear to me that if I yell "fire" in a public place and there is no fire, then I'm a criminal. Gee. I've been on the planet 62 years and never knew that. Go to hell! Get off your O'bama high horse. If I listen to Rush or whomever I choose, I have the brains to know that I can't go out and commit a crime just because some jerk on the radio is preaching anti-O'bama rhetoric. I'm so sick and tired of you "holier than thou" democrats preaching your gospel of hate against Republicans and trying to make the republican party the bad guy. O'bama uses the word LIAR and yet when a republican uses it, it's hate. O'bama hates all people who did not vote for him and he's hating right now because his numbers are down. Even the people who voted for him are seeing through his community organization skills deficite. He moved too swiftly, too boldly and too carelessly. People don't like his policies. That does not equate to a riot. But we can verbally oppose him all we want to. Again, go to hell with your rhetoric. You're condescending.

By: sidneyames on 9/18/09 at 7:38

/thanks Chief, you said it nicer than I did. But of course, I'm an uneducated American. Only went through H.S. so I'm not smart enough for Louse! Oops! left out the "C". Need to apologize to Clouse. NOT!

By: pandabear on 9/18/09 at 7:41

You guys are forgetting one thing.
Words are used to communicate, but they are just one form of communication.
You can't explain what hate speech is, you have to feel it to know.
Or, to put it another way, we all know what hate speech is the moment we hear it.

Can't you feel the bile rising and face tightening down as the eyes get narrower
when you get mad ?

Communication uses words, expressions, gestures, etc.

Bottom line is, we all know what hate speech is when we hear it....
or hate looks when we see it...or hate actions when ....(they are being actioned...? )

By: sidneyames on 9/18/09 at 7:41

Dragon: You kiddin' me? Beck/ Hannity and Limbaugh incite anarchy, violence, usurp a national election, stage a political coo. The "Tea Baggin" fools now come to "Town Halls" and Obama rallies with guns strapped to their legs. Real nice. Oh no, Dragon, no cause and effect whatsoever.
D7, shut up. Out of millions of people, you pick a tiny little incident and blow it up. Well blow on this: Shut up with your inflammatory hate speech. You are spreading lies. The Boston Tea Party was a success. And the people who are "tea bagging" are not fools. They are disgruntled TAX payers. I bet you don't even pay taxes. So I'm sick of your lies. Get the facts straight. You annoy everyone with any sense.

By: sidneyames on 9/18/09 at 7:44

Oywhard said "The problem with Liberals is that so many believe that when you can’t argue on any reasonable debatable issue, the only viewpoint left to fight with is race baiting, hate speech, and/or any argument trying to turn the opposition against their own analysis.

America has awaked! Free speech is alive and well." My hero! Couldn't have said it better cause I'm too angry. When my democrat friends (and yes, I have some) want to shut me down, they say "we just can't talk about this". That's their way of saying "you're winning Sidney, we can't come up with a logical answer". Shove, push, accuse and shut down. That's what O'bama is good at.

By: pandabear on 9/18/09 at 7:44

for example, what sid just said...

By: house_of_pain on 9/18/09 at 7:47

panda, please make your posts in the form of an insult...

By: chiefpayne568 on 9/18/09 at 7:50

Sidneyames,

That brings up another point. If you says to someone "you ought to go beat the snot out of that guy"...and then they DO, are you guilty of hate speech, just because someone was dumb enough to commit a crime when someone else said they should?

At what point are we responsible for ourselves? Yelling Fire is one thing yes...but telling someone they ought to do something about a problem, and then they break the law to "fix" the problem, is NOT the fault of the person speaking to them.

Anyone who listens to a talk radio personality KNOWS the person speaking is giving their opinion on the issue they are addressing. If the listener happens to be mentally unstable, it is not the fault of the speaker that the listener acts insanely.

That would be similar to someone watching Halloween (for example) and then running around really killing people like the character Michael Myers did - and then blaming the movie for the insane person's actions.

By: pandabear on 9/18/09 at 7:54

house:
sorry, I'm still working on my structure.

By: chiefpayne568 on 9/18/09 at 7:57

Now this is cute. So Obama wants to get around giving health care to illegals by giving them amnesty, so they can be US citizens?

Obama: Legalize illegals to get them health careRate this story
Republicans see a backdoor move toward 'amnesty'

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep/18/obama-ties-immigration-to-health-care-battle/?feat=home_cube_position1

By: govskeptic on 9/18/09 at 8:01

Dooley must be on Nancy Pelosi's mailing list since each one of her silly-theatrical speech points have been covered in this forum. Using the Gail Kerr/Dwight Lewis points of noise and hate to discredit every conservative's view point is the left's weapon of last resort. It is recognized by more and more voters as dishonest and useless even with the network's assist.