Reader comment

Thursday, April 21, 2011 at 12:37am

Many of us tend to believe that governance gets more parochial and provincial as we go from the federal level down to the municipal level. The more local the law, the more likely it is to contain bias and prejudice, and to be generally more "conservative." That's the conventional wisdom and sadly, that is often the case. Oppressive local ordinances are routinely thrown out in court, as state and/or federal standards of compliance supercede or trump local laws.

In the case of Metro Nashville versus the State of Tennessee, it's the other way around. Government at the state level is extremely conservative. And at the local Metro Nashville level, it is decidedly more liberal, especially in the areas of civil and human rights. This is what makes this a nationally newsworthy story.

If the Judeo-Christian theocrats, who now rule the Tennessee [legislature] are ever to be voted out of office, the crusade to do so must begin in Nashville and the time to begin that noble battle is right now. The line in the sand has been drawn. Davy Crockett stood his ground. Will Metro Nashville do the same?

Posted by "Loner"

 

 

Filed under: City Voices
Tagged: Davy Crockett

112 Comments on this post:

By: BenDover on 4/21/11 at 11:24

Not that I agree with the content of what you said. You're repeating a carefully crafted straw-man that dismisses the position of the faithful by association with their faith... and it disregards the fact that on whole their positions for reform in the state are no worse than those of their counterparts who eschew faith.

By: budlight on 4/21/11 at 11:32

Blanketnazi2 on 4/21/11 at 7:06
bud, telling someone who is not into christianity that you'll "pray for them" is like a satanist telling you they'll do a midnight sacrefice for you. it's insulting.

Telling someone who is not into christianity that you'll pray for them is not a bad thing. Sometimes it actually enlightens one! You may consider it an insult if you wish. We live in a free country - at least for now.

What do you think we'll be like if Sharia law is implementd in our country? Will that insult you? Or do you welcome that with open arms? I think Loner is angry at Christians for a reason as well as others. Mainly because they have been hurt or do not understand it fully. It is my right to pray for whomever I choose.

By: budlight on 4/21/11 at 11:32

Oh yes, and to speak about it without censorship. Thanks so much constitution.

By: Loner on 4/21/11 at 11:33

Ben, if earth creatures are just too complex to have evolved without Divine Intervention and are therefore the result of intelligent design, then it must follow that an infinitely more complex being, such as the Hebrew God and His Son (and their Holy Ghosts), must also be the result of super-intelligent design...according to your inferential logic.... or, did God, as you say, " bootstrap Himself out of the mud"?

Of course, if we were created by a God, who was Himself (Himselves?) created by a super-intelligent being, then we must ask, "Who created the being who the created the God who created the earth creatures....ad infinitum."

Why limit the belief system to the last generation of supernatural being(s)?

By: house_of_pain on 4/21/11 at 11:37

Some of the design doesn't seem too intelligent, either.
Someone should have known the dodo bird wasn't going to work out, for example.

By: Loner on 4/21/11 at 11:48

Why thank you, Benjamin Dover, I appreciate that; and thanks for all the kind words from the others.

It is an honor to have a post elevated to this level and I thank the NCP Editors for this personal honor.

The post itself was meant to be a call-to-arms for secular democrats of all political persuasions to unite and force these preacher-politicians out of public office.

Will this reader comment be published in the hard copy? If you are going to stir up the muck, stir it!

I think that Metro has a good legal case and should fight the Legislature on the GLBT anti-bias issue.

The state, however, is building its case on rather shaky legal grounds, IMO. The state is attempting to ban local governments from exceeding minimum standards of compliance, in the areas of Human Rights Law and Civil Rights Law; I do not believe that there is a whole lot of legal precedence for that.

Remember Davy Crockett at the Alamo...the line has been drawn in the sand....stand your ground, Nashville!

By: Loner on 4/21/11 at 12:08

The debate thickens.....

The Accusation:

"You're repeating a carefully crafted straw-man that dismisses the position of the faithful by association with their faith... and it disregards the fact that on whole their positions for reform in the state are no worse than those of their counterparts who eschew faith." - Ben Dover

The Response:

Thank you, sir, for appreciating the fine workmanship of that handcrafted "straw man". Obviously, as a scarecrow, it failed.

But seriously, by associating their professional duties with their duties of faith, the positions of the faith-based office-holders are openly, indeed proudly biased along their faith lines. These theocrats boast of their Christian faith and they exploit it to pander to their theocratic base....they are grandstanding for God.

If Ben can actually find and identify a bona fide political force that has the clout, the money and the political influence of the Christian Right, but "eschews faith", then he should trot out that monstrous beast for the world to see. This is beyond a "straw man" argument, Ben has constructed a straw donkey.

By: gdiafante on 4/21/11 at 12:53

I agree house.

Then again, I'm sure there are some who think the Dodo was fabricated by bird-hating Athiest scientists in order to thwart the spread of Christianity.

lol

By: Loner on 4/21/11 at 1:03

Budlight, I do not hate Christians, Jews, Muslims or people of any other faith, just because of their faith, or lack of faith.

I do hate hypocrisy.

Jesus of Nazareth was not a politician. His Kingdom was "not of this world". Sadly, his putative followers have perverted his legacy and his lessons, to suit their worldly prejudices and their selfish agendas.

Today, mega-pastors, televangelists, bible scholars, Christian radio personalities and assorted "Christian" clergymen would have us believe that Jesus was a homo-hating, heterosexual, virgin stud. Not only that, these godly folks would have us believe that Jesus was a militant, arms-bearing Zionist and a gifted capitalist guru. And a death penalty advocate.

I am a Unitarian Universalist...just for the record. You can Google that, if you wish...No, I do not do missionary work.

By: Loner on 4/21/11 at 1:09

GD, House...the Dodo must have been aboard Noah's Ark...if the Dodo was a Divine Boo-boo, the mistake could have been corrected at that time; obviously, it wasn't, ergo the Dodo design was intentional and its right-to-life re-affirmed during the Deluge, right?

By: revo-lou on 4/21/11 at 1:10

{Today, mega-pastors, televangelists, bible scholars, Christian radio personalities and assorted "Christian" clergymen would have us believe that Jesus was a homo-hating, heterosexual, virgin stud. Not only that, these godly folks would have us believe that Jesus was a militant, arms-bearing Zionist and a gifted capitalist guru. And a death penalty advocate.}

And he puts the fix on NASCAR races, football/hockey/baseball/basketball games,
and lotteries.

By: Loner on 4/21/11 at 1:13

I forgot that part, revo-lou....thanks for the input; anything else?

By: gdiafante on 4/21/11 at 1:15

The Dodo lasted until around 1700 I think...I'll have to find one of my Athiest Scientist books and see...

By: gdiafante on 4/21/11 at 1:17

No, God does not intervene in hockey...trust me.

By: revo-lou on 4/21/11 at 1:22

{Loner on 4/21/11 at 1:13
I forgot that part, revo-lou....thanks for the input; anything else?}

Tons. But you know, there is budlight's feelings to consider and all.

{gdiafante on 4/21/11 at 1:17
No, God does not intervene in hockey...trust me.}

Now gd, maybe the Ducks' fans just "prayed harder"!

By: BenDover on 4/21/11 at 1:23

The repubs in the state have proposed tort reform, they have proposed vouchers for low-income students in public schools that have failed them, they have proposed limiting the power of the teachers public sector employee union since they have both tenure and civil service protection already... They are advancing gun rights legislation and are working to undo the substantial damage Obamacare will do to the state among many other reforms that have been blocked by Democrat control of the legislature since the early 1900’s in Tennessee.

But what we hear are complaints of theocrats trying to impose their religion over the heathen masses. Are your complaints about the repubs limited to there intervention on behalf of those who don't think gays deserve special privilege or those who would have the fact that evolution is still a theory taught to our students? Or do you harangue on these issues in order to paint the whole movement as a out-side the main-stream theocratic invasion upon individual liberty loner?

By: Loner on 4/21/11 at 1:25

The Dodo's design flaw was the fact that it was so damn tasty...Hungry sailors had dominion over the flocks, as they were instructed to do in the Good Book...they say the Dodos were finger-licking good, according to the log-book of Captain Sanders, skipper of the Kentucky Fryer. Here's a snippet:

Aye, there they were, plump little flightless fowl, presenting their sumptuous breasts and thighs, as if to beckon hither...

Source URL:

http://justkiddingfolks.com

By: gdiafante on 4/21/11 at 1:26

Impossible, revo...everyone knows Ducks fans have no soul...

By: revo-lou on 4/21/11 at 1:28

{gdiafante on 4/21/11 at 1:26
Impossible, revo...everyone knows Ducks fans have no soul...}

Well, they are from CA gd!

By: gdiafante on 4/21/11 at 1:29

"and are working to undo the substantial damage Obamacare will do to the state..."

So they're working to undo something that hasn't happened. In that case I think they should work out regulating air-traffic for flying cars, too.

By: BenDover on 4/21/11 at 1:29

lol loner.

By: BenDover on 4/21/11 at 1:33

People who pay tribute and homage to the Obama get waivers from his Obamacare rules... gd. Think about that for a minute.

By: gdiafante on 4/21/11 at 1:41

Sorry Ben, when you use idiotic rhetoric like "the Obama", you come across as just another bitter Conservative.

By: BenDover on 4/21/11 at 1:45

When he requires tribute and homage to avoid the wrath of his rules the title fits, gd.

By: revo-lou on 4/21/11 at 1:51

{When he requires tribute and homage to avoid the wrath of his rules the title fits, gd}

Or, when one is providing the intent of the "healthcare rules" anyway, they can continue without having to revamp their program to do the same thing.

By: BenDover on 4/21/11 at 1:56

Yep... "go forth and sin no more... and don't forget to leave your tribute and homage with the money-changers".

By: Loner on 4/21/11 at 2:00

Thank God, or whatever, I waded through Doctor Dover's 1:23 post to get to the last word in the last sentence, "Loner". I suppose that I'll have to give Ben more time to respond to my 12:08 post. He seems to have conceded that earlier debate, by way of silence and subject change.

In response to Ben's 1:23 post, I think Ben is being disingenuous and speaks with a Ditto-head accent.

Ben wrote: "They (the repubs in the state) are advancing gun rights legislation and are working to undo the substantial damage Obamacare will do to the state among many other reforms that have been blocked by Democrat control of the legislature since the early 1900’s in Tennessee."

First, the Ditto-head accent part:
Notice how Ben used the term "Democrat control", instead of the term "Democratic control". That's pure Rush Limbaugh..who actually stole the tactic, but that's tangential....but still relevant. Ben is part of the EIB "echo chamber".

Secondly, the disingenuous part:
Ben knows full well that from 1900 to 1968 the Southern wing of the Democratic Party was the party of the segregationists, the Creationists, KKK sympathizers, Jim Crow advocates and Christian fundamentalists. The North was under Republican control.

Richard Nixon's "Southern Strategy" changed the dynamic; Nixon and the Republican strategists reached out and courted these disgruntled Southern segregationist Democrats.

The plan worked. The Solid South was fractured, starting at the top. The fracture slowly descended to the Southern statehouses, which had remained in the hands of old-school Democrats, for years after the initial break.

Today, the transformation from Democratic to Republican control of the South is nearing completion.

Of course, Ben Dover knows all of this, that's why I claim that his argument is not genuine.

By: BenDover on 4/21/11 at 2:07

Loner... I'm simply saying that your emphasis on these republican issues of religion is fear-mongering among the secularlists. Viewing the whole of what the repubs are doing we find that overall it's very popular with a largely conservative Tennessee. Why do you emphasize these minor issues of religion if not to pick a fragment, a crack, a potential weak-spot with which to discredit the whole?

By: gdiafante on 4/21/11 at 2:10

"it's very popular with a largely conservative Tennessee."

That's true. As one of the dumbest states in the union, it's very popular.

By: BenDover on 4/21/11 at 2:15

My long-standing definition of a liberal, "one who starts every discussion with the premise that everyone else is an idiot". Liberalism in the modern definition is the most arrogant, self-assured and imposing of the political ideologies. It usually is practiced by immature know-it-all people who have yet to learn how little they really know.

By: pswindle on 4/21/11 at 2:20

It has nothing to do with christianity but common sense. The GOP has gone over the top.

By: gdiafante on 4/21/11 at 2:20

So you're Liberal, Ben? Who knew?

By: Loner on 4/21/11 at 2:20

Fortunately, as with all dynamic movements, there is a counter-force effect that must be taken into account. When the Republican Party invited and accepted the Southern theocrats into their herd, some liberal members of the GOP herd balked and went over to the other side. This may explain why so many northeastern states are Democratic strongholds today, but were Republican territory, prior to 1968.

By: gdiafante on 4/21/11 at 2:25

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/edu_bes_edu_ind-education-best-educated-index

It's from a few years ago but I doubt that the state has improved much. And given the state GOP blaming teachers for the failure of education, I'd say that even they would agree.

So what was your point, Ben? lol

By: BenDover on 4/21/11 at 2:31

I don't have contempt for the average person, gd... I have contempt for those who have contempt for the average person. The ones who really p*ss me off are those who are so arrogant as to believe that they can and should manage from on high, command and control, the financial interests of individuals while knowing nothing of their individual circumstance. Give me, any day, a million people with IQ's of 100 working in their own interest over a faculty lounge full of 150+ IQs trying to manage what's best for their dim-witted constituency.

By: Loner on 4/21/11 at 2:48

Ben Dover impugned my motives then continued to advance one false premise after another, while downplaying the effectiveness of the politically active Christian Right and the scope of their faith-based agenda.

Ben wrote: "Loner... I'm simply saying that your emphasis on these republican issues of religion is fear-mongering among the secularlists....Why do you emphasize these minor issues of religion if not to pick a fragment, a crack, a potential weak-spot with which to discredit the whole?"

The secularists do not need any fear mongering...they are plenty alarmed, Ben.

Those so-called "minor issues of religion" are not minor at all.

Injecting Creationism into the public school science curriculum is not a "minor issue of religion".

Legally denying a woman's right to terminate her pregnancy, even in the case of rape, incest or to save her own life is not a "minor issue of religion".

Depriving gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgendered Americans their basic human and civil rights is not a "minor issue of religion".

US taxpayer funding and the continuous official apologizing, on behalf of the apartheid State of Israel, the rampaging IDF and the Mossad death squads - because of some claimed Biblical prophecy concerning the rebuilding of the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem - are not "minor issues of religion".

By: gdiafante on 4/21/11 at 2:51

Ben, you just described most politicians.

By: BenDover on 4/21/11 at 3:07

Not the constitutional conservatives, gd.

By: revo-lou on 4/21/11 at 3:08

{Give me, any day, a million people with IQ's of 100 working in their own interest over a faculty lounge full of 150+ IQs trying to manage what's best for their dim-witted constituency.}

So, in other words, it is much easier for you to control a situation when you are the one superior to the others?

By: BenDover on 4/21/11 at 3:17

"Impugned " is a harsh term loner. It seems to me though that your focus on the religion here in a way that undermines a reasonably well grounded party movement is like projecting Fred Phelps' Westboro Church's views across all Christians.

Is it hyperbole, cognitive dissonance or a well calculated ruse offering leadership in undermining a cause you think is worth undermining? I don’t know.

By: BenDover on 4/21/11 at 3:20

I'm not trying to control anything Lou. It's a misnomer that to do so it beneficial to society. The 'DO SOMETHING' movement is what is ruining this country.

By: yogiman on 4/21/11 at 3:21

BenDover,

I agree with you on the fact that "intelligence" proven by IQs ain't on the same road with common sense. Our politicians have proven this fact for years.

By: revo-lou on 4/21/11 at 3:22

{I'm not trying to control anything Lou. It's a misnomer that to do so it beneficial to society. The 'DO SOMETHING' movement is what is ruining this country.}

You mean like the ones we have in our current state, trying to "do" for business and the religious “right”?

By: revo-lou on 4/21/11 at 3:24

{I agree with you on the fact that "intelligence" proven by IQs ain't on the same road with common sense. Our politicians have proven this fact for years.}

Since you have chosen neither road, what should we label your venture?

By: Loner on 4/21/11 at 3:39

I admire your choice of words, Ben: e.g. "pick a fragment, a crack, a potential weak-spot with which to discredit the whole".

I must admit, I am trying to undermine the most powerful punctuation mark in the English language and to that end, I am forced to pick any fragment, any crack, any potential weak-spot with which to discredit the whole.

The target is the seemingly innocuous hyphen in the phrase "Judeo-Christian".

My motives are honorable, not hate-based. I wish to disengage the USA from the ongoing Holy Wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and now Libya. My hope is that the USA will not expand these elective faith-based conflicts, especially with respect to Iran.

Although it is never stated as such, the US goal in all these faith-based, oil-based conflicts in the Middle East, Central Asia and North Africa is to make the world safe for Zionism. (Zionism: Theodor Herzl's 1896 plan for a Jewish State).

The US Constitution forbids taxpayer-funding to underwrite the establishment of religion...certainly that should apply to establishing a Jewish State in Palestine.

Contrary to conventional wisdom, that which is good for the Jewish State in Palestine is seldom actually good for the United States. Our values and national interests are not identical; they are often in conflict.

Herzl's scheme was and remains fundamentally flawed, the US needs to invite the world's oppressed Jews to come here and assimilate as US citizens, while we simultaneously pull the plug on Herzl's failed experiment in theocracy and faith & race based colonialism.

Some of Israel's greatest US supporters may be secret, or closet anti-Semites - Christians who hope and pray that every Jewish American packs and moves to Israel.

End of required religion-based rant.

By: yogiman on 4/21/11 at 3:39

revo-lou,

I guess I must admit, I'm one of the few intelligent people with common sense, but then, I ain't no politician now.

What's your category? I haven't been able to entirely figure it out; yet.

By: dargent7 on 4/21/11 at 3:40

God doesn't intervene in hockey? Who do you think drops the puck during a face-off?

By: revo-lou on 4/21/11 at 3:45

{God doesn't intervene in hockey? Who do you think drops the puck during a face-off?}

Gravity is not an act of god.

By: revo-lou on 4/21/11 at 3:48

{What's your category? I haven't been able to entirely figure it out; yet.}

My persona is reality based yogi. And, I will let your "self-assessment" stand, though it is only in your mind.

By: BenDover on 4/21/11 at 3:54

I don't believe in gravity. I think everything is just getting bigger at a proportional rate. Given that, God didn't make the puck fall... He made the earth slam up into the puck while the players were just along for the ride.